Speak For Change With Thomas Sage Pedersen
Welcome to Speak for Change with Thomas Sage Pedersen! Our mission is to inspire and promote positive and lasting change in our local & global communities.
Speak For Change With Thomas Sage Pedersen
Justin Cummings | Leading In The Storm: Leading in Crisis, The Power of Delegation, Cutting red tape, "Pick Issues not SIdes"
We trace Justin Cummings’ path from early leadership training to steering Santa Cruz through a pandemic, fires, and a fragile housing landscape. Practical stories show how to connect experts, cut red tape, protect renters, and stay grounded without losing joy.
• early leadership roots in camp programs and team captaincy
• becoming mayor during crisis and defining the role
• building information bridges across sectors
• doubling local COVID testing capacity through escalation and certification
• handling criticism with clarity and boundaries
• self care, time management and public visibility
• housing instability as the central community risk
• tenant protections and a funded attorney resource
• transparency versus strategy in public communication
• culture setting through joy, humor and choosing issues not sides
• advice for emerging leaders on listening and sharing the stage
Bio
I moved to Santa Cruz from Chicago in 2007 to pursue a PhD in ecology and evolutionary biology with a designated emphasis in environmental science from UC-Santa Cruz, which I received in 2013. My work has largely focused on invasive species eradication in places such as Panama and the Galapagos, sustainable fisheries science, tropical forest restoration, assessing the impacts of climate change on the environment, and diversity, equity, and inclusion in environmental conservation. After a brief post-doc in Miami, I returned to Santa Cruz in 2015 to co-found and direct the UC-Santa Cruz Doris Duke Conservation Scholars Program, whose mission is to prepare college students from diverse backgrounds to become the next generation of conservation leaders.
In Santa Cruz, I witnessed and experienced the impacts of the exorbitant housing market. I got involved in a rent control measure campaign and was one of the highest signature gatherers to place the measure on the 2018 ballot. This, along with a commitment to community engagement, prompted me to run for city council. In 2018, I was the highest vote recipient and became one of two African American men voted onto the Santa Cruz City Council for the first time in history. In 2020 I became the first African American man to serve as Mayor of the City of Santa Cruz. In 2022, I was elected to the Santa Cruz County Board of Supervisors as the Third District Supervisor.
During my time on the council, I focused on sustainable community growth, increasing affordable housing, reducing carbon emissions, public safety reform, amplifying the voices of marginalized community members, connecting people to resources during the pandemic, and most importantly bringing our community together to make Santa Cruz better for everyone.
Hello, welcome back to Speaker Change Podcast. I'm your host, Thomas H. Pederson. Today's guest is my friend Justin Cummings. Um, I mean, I don't even think he really needs a formal introduction at this point. Um, but yeah, Justin is uh our current supervisor um for Santa Cruz County or one of them. And yeah, I mean, look him up. He's amazing. And at the end, I'll give you all the links. But today we're gonna talk about leadership. Uh, this is part of our ongoing series, Leadership in the Storm, which is all about um leading in turbulent times and just leadership, which Justin he's shaking his head right now, um, knows uh quite a bit about. But just to kind of start start it off, um have you have you always been in positions of leadership throughout your career and life? Or is this is this something new? Like what's your history around like leadership and what that means to you?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, funny thing, actually, when first thanks for having me. Yeah. It's funny.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, actually, when I was a kid, I used to go to summer camp in Wisconsin, a place called Camp Minicani. And I started off going there through asthma camp. It was like for kids with asthma, it was subsidized by the American Lung Association. Yeah. So started going there and then just fell in love with camp. And after I got to the age where I couldn't go through asthma camp anymore, I just wanted to go to the regular camp. And in order to become staff there to become a counselor, you have to be selected for their leadership training program. And it was like, I'd say like 40 of us out of about 800 kids who applied, and I got selected. So I did the leadership training program for the summer after my sophomore and junior year in high school, and then the third year was after my senior year, and um didn't end up becoming a counselor, but you know, had that opportunity to go through those programs. And then in addition to that, I was captain of the my soccer team, captain of my wrestling team when I was a senior in high school. So I've had some leadership opportunities.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So you were you were so so this has been a common theme. Like what kind of drew you to that?
SPEAKER_02:Or was it just you just just it just happened or I mean it for the you know, for the summer camp stuff, I mean, we just got selected, right? Yeah. And then just kept working through that. And similarly with with uh soccer and wrestling, um, I was just really pushing our team, and they kind of saw me as as the captain, you know, in that regard. And so and then when I was in college, I actually was selected to be the student dean for the college of sciences. And um, well, I was selected to be the representative for the college of sciences on the student advisory board, and then became student dean of the college of sciences and was kind of selected by you know folks to be in those positions.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it sounds like you were selected because you were engaged, right? And like fully kind of present and you know, looking at uh the health of the teams you're on. Um have you always like what like theoretically, like what inspired those traits in you? Because not everyone is like that, you understand? Like, you know, when you're in high school and there's all a bunch of different types of people, right? In in our world.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And not everyone is like fully engaged in their team or community or whatever. Like, is there a reason why you lean more toward that engagement?
SPEAKER_02:I feel like, especially back a little bit when I was younger, less so now, extremely energetic person, and like trying to figure out like where to put that energy and if I find something I'm interested in, it's like boom, I'm gonna put all my energy into that and try and go 100%.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And so I think that's kind of part of it. It's like wanting to, you know, excel and seeing, you know, not everything as a competition, but seeing things as a challenge and trying to see how I can overcome those challenges.
SPEAKER_01:Again, not everyone puts their energy into those things, you know. So, you know, I I I maybe just trying to get into that route, you know, of this. Uh, you know, what made you think of putting your energy into these things and these opportunities and these these passions instead of just like running around and doing these things?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, it's like, you know, you want to be good at something, right? Or a lot of people do. I mean, I feel like I'm I'm kind of okay at a lot of different things. Yeah. Um, but whenever I kind of find something that's like a passion, like I just go for it, you know? And it's just, you know, that's just my nature.
SPEAKER_01:It's just your nature. Yeah. And so, okay, so like, I mean, that's so that's so interesting to me. Um so like now, now as a leader in our community, I mean, you were you were mayor during 2020. Is that correct? Oh yeah. And so, you know, I arguably a pretty turbulent time, I would, I would say. Uh turbulent like a tsunami. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah. And fires and all the things. Um what did you get out of that experience as a leader, you know? Um and kind of can you give me some context of like when you became mayor and what were you doing before? And how did you approach these kind of obstacles that came in your way?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think, you know, going back to kind of sports and being the captain of a team and being a team player, you know, one of the things that really dawned on me when kind of COVID hit, yeah, uh, I was kind of trying to figure out like, what's my role here?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:What do I do? There's no playbook for how you are a mayor or an elected official during a pandemic.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And, you know, one of the things that really occurred to me is that the most important thing is trying to get the right information from the right people and getting that information out to the rest of the community. And so, you know, for me, it was really just trying to check in with the different sectors of who's being impacted, who can help, and how can we connect people together.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And that was when I realized that like that is kind of the role, like being an elected official, that's that's really is at the core. One of our biggest roles is how do we make sure that everybody's in communication with what's going on?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so for me, it was like, you know, talking to scientists that I know on campus who work in infectious disease ecology, being able to understand their perspective, bringing that into the conversation when we're working with public health, finding out where people can get resources, where can people get food? Yeah. And then making sure that that we're communicating that up the chain, right? Yeah. Because in order for our state elected officials to be able to, you know, advocate for us, they need to know what the problems are. In order for the federal elected officials to know how to get us resources, they need to know what the problems are. And so even when we would have those meetings, making sure that it's not just coming from me, like bringing people into the conversation. So like having the police chief there, having economic development there, you know, having the city manager, like people who can actually speak to from their experience, you know, what's happening on the ground. Right. And I feel like in in terms of a leadership position, it's like I don't need to be the one that's just saying what's happening. It's like it I feel like my role is bringing the people in who can help and bringing the people who are impacted together so that we can all hear from each other.
SPEAKER_01:Ooh, and and how did that turn out? It worked well.
SPEAKER_02:You know, it worked really well. And there were some times where you know we would get blown off by certain people in government. Yeah. And I was like, okay, that's fine. You can blow me off. I'm gonna go, now I'm gonna go above you, and I'm gonna go to the next person.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So an example was we had um, I had a friend at the time, she was working in a lab on campus, and one day we were hanging out and she's like, Yeah, we've decided we're gonna make our own COVID test. And I was like, what are you talking about? And she's like, Well, it's you know, PCR. It's it's you, you know, amplify, you isolate it a gene, and then you amplify it on a gel, and it's either there or it's not. And this is like basic bio 101, like we were taught this about freshman biology class. And I was like, Yeah, no, you're right. Like, so if you swap someone's nose and you isolate the sample and you replicate the gene, either it's there or it's not. And so I was like, that's cool, perfect. And so I went to talk to public health about it, and they were kind of like, no, we're not interested. And I was like, why not? Like, they're gonna make their they know what they're doing. And they're like, no, not interested. So I was like, okay. And so I went to Jimmy Panetta. I told them, like, here we have this lab, yeah, introducing you to all the professors. Yeah. They were able to show, like, we have the machines, we have the capacity, all these things. And he was up able to help them get through all the red tape to get certified as a lab, and that doubled the capacity of testing for COVID in our community. And what people don't remember, or may you know, many people probably probably don't remember, is back then to reopen it was based on the number of tests per 100,000 people. Uh so if we hadn't had that lab on campus, we would have been much more constrained for much longer periods of time. And there was a point when the the Quest Diagnostic Lab actually went down at Dominican.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And luckily we had the one on campus to keep running, right? So it's like these things that happen that people don't necessarily hear about and know about. Yeah. But it's it's really, you know, through these connections and really being able to just, you know, sometimes push past others and make things happen. I think that's another part about you know being in leadership is sometimes like not taking no for an answer.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. You know. Man, I love that. And you know, I just, you know, while while you were talking, A, I want to know if there was any times when you felt like anxious or dis uncomfortable or you know, stressful, or any kind of like like deeper emotions. Because one of the things I know working with you has been you have this like tremendous capacity to just kind of keep going despite like you know, different criticisms and haters and like you know, you know, people coming at you, you know what I mean? Literally, right? And you know, as someone like me, who I'm I'm a pretty sensitive guy, you know. And I think, you know, just doing activist stuff, I've been burned quite quite a bit, and have had to like get back up and do the things, but you have this like beautiful capacity or something. I don't know what it is, it's like a magic trick to me. Um, and I want to I want to speak on that a little bit. I want you to like kind of like what is that? What what's happening in your mind and in your body? Um I think I can hide it pretty well.
SPEAKER_02:Tell me more, tell me more. Well, I mean, like, you know, there's times when you start I mean, right now, for example, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of frustration that happens when, for example, our last board meeting. Yeah. The beginning of the meeting, there's not gonna be any snap benefits. Then there's gonna be half snap benefits. Then by the end of the meeting, there's no snap benefits, you know, and it's just and that like you know, the uncertainty, yeah, that definitely is nerve-wracking. Okay, you know, and you know, when COVID hit and then people were worried about you know not getting not being able to pay their rent and getting kept out of the houses, it's like, you know, there's times when I get to I get really frustrated. Yeah, you know, and um and just gotta keep pushing forward.
SPEAKER_01:You know, what about you personally? Do you ever get like, you know, anxious or anything like that? I I get frustration, you know, definitely when the process is happening. But like, you know, I I feel like there has been times um in your career where you know you've been criticized or different things like that. Do you take that on or do you just like let it go, or do you even do you even touch it? Like what's what's your process around this?
SPEAKER_02:I just let it roll. You just let it roll. I mean it depends. You know, sometimes if it's a if it's a criticism that's legitimate, yeah, that I can like work with, yeah, fine. I'm like, let's sit down and talk.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But when people just are like throwing hate at me, I'm like fine.
SPEAKER_01:That's amazing. So you so you just have a capacity not to be able to take things on on a personal level, then. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I've like, you know, I grew up in a neighborhood that was where there was a lot of racist people.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And if I let everything that I heard someone say get to me, yeah, then I would just, you know, it would just broken down. And you know, growing up on the south side of Chicago, it's like, yeah, people are gonna throw stuff at you, and it's like, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna stand up to them or are you gonna cower? Because if you cower, they're just gonna keep coming at you. Yeah. And so it learning to, you know, be like, what are you gonna do about it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, like you can say whatever you want to me. I'm like, okay, yeah. Now what?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Like I'm not affected by that. Like, you're not like your words are coming at me. I'm like, that's great. I I kind of know my capacity as a human being to do good work, work hard. You know, I try to be there for other people. And so when people come at me, I'm like, what are you doing? Yeah. You know, I'm like, what are you doing to help your community? You can say whatever you want.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But then my question to them is like, well, what are you gonna like? What can you do better?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, and if it's like I said, if it's a legitimate criticism, yeah, and if people want to have a legitimate conversation, yeah, I'm fine with having that.
SPEAKER_01:But when people just throw hate at me, I'm just like I mean, that's that's a such a remarkable trait to me. Um in many ways. Because like I like I said, I've noticed this as the years has gone by have gone by talking with you, you tend to go right to the logical thing, the thing that's in front of us, the thing that we have to conquer, the the way about it. And even when like hate's coming your way or like some like weird social media thing happens or something, it just seems just you know, and you're just like, well, blah blah, do they want to have a conversation? Just bring it back to like a the ground. Right. And I've just been like, wow, like that is such a trait. And so I'm wondering that being said, and like you can feel free to BS this question or whatever, but like what's your weakness, man? Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, like like you know what I mean? Like what what what would you think your like what is something you're working on? I guess is a better way of saying that, right? Like, what is something that you are a con like you're like okay, I need this is an area where I need to improve um as a leader, right?
SPEAKER_02:Like well, I think like personal health, yeah, you know, like taking time for me.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That sounds right. Um because you know, it's like constantly taking on all these problems and challenges, and then it's like I don't know, I feel like I need to do more like self-care. Yeah. And I think that's something that um a lot of folks well, I'm I'm not gonna talk for other people, but yeah, me in in particular, you know, going to grad school, it was all like focus on your work, focus on your work, and now out of grad school and work, it's a focus on your work. And I I need to like I try often to pull myself back. Yeah, you know, but I think you know, going on more hikes, yeah, going to the gym more often, making that a priority, and not trying to, you know, do everything all the time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. No, I I I completely understand that. I've had to adopt the the c the the new atomic habits model of that, right? Where I'm just like, even if it's just a little thing, I'm gonna have to do it, you know. And it's it's uh it's hard. I think it's very it's hard to, you know, do that. Um yeah, I I have you found success?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, uh you know, a little bit, but I think, you know, it's probably gonna be one of the things I need to commit to more going into the next year.
SPEAKER_01:Beautiful. So like as a community leader and like a politician, like what are some of the goals that you personally have for our community, like that you're seeing that you kind of are looking forward to, like your vision? Like if you could just like dr daydream about like our community and like if there's changes you would make or whatever, just based on your own experience and your own views of things, like what are some of those things?
SPEAKER_02:I think stabilizing the community.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I think this community and many communities are not stable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and this one is continuing to get worse.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because, you know, the fact that as a xennial, millennial, kind of on that cusp, you know, like having gotten two bachelors, a PhD, worked as a postdoc, run a nonprofit, gotten to elected office, you know, it's like the fact that I still have to live in shared housing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:And there's like really, I mean, every time I save and get to a point where I'm like, okay, I think I might have a down payment on a house, boom, prices go up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_02:And I think there's a lot of folks in our generation who are like that. And sometimes I even say it's like I might be better off if I just gave up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because with all the affordable housing that's going in for people who are low income and on the street, it's like, if I just said, screw it, I don't want to do this anymore, I'd probably be more eligible and more likely to get permanent housing than I would if I continue to work as hard as I am to try to buy something. Interesting. And so that's what I mean. Like we have to stabilize our community because if people are working day in, day out, and they can't get to a point where they can own their own home, then they're completely in a in a very precarious and unstable situation.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And, you know, people dedicate their lives to supporting the small businesses, you know, like whether you're a bartender or a server, or you're a janitor at a school, like what have you. Like that's what keeps this place alive.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And when those people get to a point where, for example, somebody's renting, like, hey, sorry, you gotta get out. Yeah. And you know, it only, you know, they there's only so many times that can happen to when somebody's just like, I'm done.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Right?
SPEAKER_02:Or they get pushed so far out of the town to where they're like, I'm done. So, and that's happen we see that happening more and more. And we're gonna see that happen a lot more in the next 10 years. Yeah. Because for a lot of the kind of older landlords that keep cheap rent, when they pass, yeah, their kids are gonna take on the buildings, they're probably gonna sell them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, and we're gonna have this mass of people who've been supported, who've, you know, people who've kept the rents down and the people who've lived in those units being like, I'm out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And so that is the biggest challenge that I see for us is how do we make sure that the people who are the backbone of this community are able to stay here.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and like, and I know this is going off kind of the leadership part of this, but you know, out of curiosity, what do you think, in your opinion, is the relationship with like your position, positionality, and like, you know, communicating to people maybe who are more in the grassroots community, who are just like on the ground, like doing thing every day, right? Um, and just like the different segments of the community, right? Like the the power broker kind of people who are, you know, funding th things and you know, um all the different types of folks. Like, what do you think like your positionality isn't in that that kind of landscape, that sociopolitical landscape?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I think that you know, now that I've been in this field for seven years, been in politics longer than I was in grad school.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, right. I was like, that's you've been in for a long time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um you know, I think that I've gained knowledge and perspective that I can share with folks that they'll take me seriously. Yeah. So, like, for example, yesterday I was down in Monterey. Uh, Landwatch is a group that's kind of at the intersection between housing and environmental protection. And there are, you know, elected officials in the room, there's people who are pretty wealthy in the room, there's, you know, other folks who work with nonprofits. Contractors and was able to, you know, just tell them about our experience here in Santa Cruz as it relates to building, as it relates to how we engage with the Coastal Commission, like and the fact that we are, you know, trying to look for solutions to advance and maximize affordable housing in the community. And, you know, I got a lot of compliments afterwards, you know, but being able to have those platforms and be able to speak to broader audiences, um, especially being invited as a keynote. So people are like, okay, we should probably take this guy a little bit seriously. Yeah. You know, being able to lend that credibility to all the work that we're doing, I think is is really a benefit for me to be in this position.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And in addition to that, I think going back to what we were talking about before, like being able to reach out to nonprofits or seeing where the gaps are, I mean, like, we need to put some funding in this. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Kind of being a connector of sorts. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because it's like, you know, Community Bridges offers uh rental assistance. Right. Right. And so being in the I'm on their board, but being able to say, like, okay, how's this going? Like, do we see a lot of people coming and getting rental rental assistance?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:One of the gaps that was there before I got on to the board was that there's a lot of tenants who are wrongfully treated by their landlords.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And one of the things that I've advocated for we're funding now is a tenant attorney. And in many other cities, they have what's called rights of counsel. It's the same thing. But tenants are able to go to an attorney and get advice or give them the right letter at for no cost. And so that was something that I embed like implemented when I first came on the board. And it's proven to be really helpful for them. So they not only do they know their rights, but we had one instance when a landlord was trying to keep people's security deposits and they sent a letter saying you need to give their security deposit back. And the landlord freaked out because they were like, who is this attorney? Yeah. And the fact that the like the community was funding it, like lost his mind. You know what I mean? But that's but it's like, yeah, yeah. Our community is going to hold you accountable. Yeah. We're all trying to hold each other accountable. Yeah. And so it's it's really trying to see where those gaps are, fill those gaps, and then try to communicate out to other folks. Because oftentimes, if other communities just don't know what's happening, what's possible, we're not going to do it. But then we're able to let them know like, here's what we're doing in our community that maybe you should consider doing. And then we see the ripple effect, right? Programs starting to pop up similar to what we're doing.
SPEAKER_01:Man, I love that view of how of like kind of bringing people together, and then that a perfect example, right, of like the lawyer and the board and boom, you know, making that happen. Um so as being in a position of leadership, this question kind of like I'm always curious about, right? And it's the role of like being vulnerable versus kind of being holding information strategically or you know, vulnerability slash like transparency versus like kind of being more like, oh, I can't share this, or I have to like strategically kind of hold this information or not be as transparent. I'm wondering what is your relationship with that kind of mentality of like vulnerability, like opening yourself up, being transparent with either like people who are underneath you or like your community.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think transparency is critical for you know gaining public trust.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so for me, you know, it's it's always about trying to be as honest as you can.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And sometimes it's like, you know, if if we're having a conversation about what we may or may not do, yeah, that doesn't need to be shared.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's like when we decide we're gonna do something, yeah, how do we, you know, package this in a way that it's gonna that we can communicate it to the community so that they understand what's going on. Right. Right. Um and uh and just being honest about it. I mean, sometimes like, look, you know, the hard truth has to come out sometimes. But you know, like right now with everything that's going on with the Trump administration, like, yeah, it's not a good time. And we and people are going to be hurt. Right. And for some people we can help them, and for others, we won't be able to do anything about it, you know. But then at the same time, it's like, but even given that being said, we're gonna try to get everybody all the resources that they can to support themselves as best they can. And then it's up to them. Right. Right. Here are the resources, you it's up to you to take advantage of them. Right. It's up to you, like we're trying to get, you know, um the channels out so people can have access to information so they know where to go to get the resources. And if people don't take advantage of them, it's like, well, I did the best I could. Yeah. You know. Um, but I I think that, you know, it's it's people trust when you're being honest with them. Right. You know, and and that's the thing too. It's like, yeah, I might face some harsh criticism about it, but that's my job.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I'll take it into account. And if there's something I can do, I'll do it. And yeah, if I can't, then it's like, okay, well, I appreciate your opinion. Yeah. But this is, you know, this is a situation we're in.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. Um, yeah, I love that. And, you know, on that kind of perspective, like what is probably one of the biggest obstacles that you have, I guess, as an individual in your leadership position and as like just your job, right? Like your job as being a leader in this community. Like what are what are one or two big obstacles that you that just you know frustrate you or stress you out, you know, that there's no anonymity anymore. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's true. So, you know, that's not an obstacle, it's just like, you know, you're out in public, you're trying to relax, and somebody comes up to you, hey, I got this idea, or hey, I got this problem, you know. And it's like, I'm not trying to work right now. Yeah. But sometimes, I mean, and sometimes I don't really I don't mind that much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um But I would say like time management can be challenging. I mean, that like right now, for whatever reason, I haven't gotten invited to many things on the weekends. Thank God. But there have been times when I've like worked, I mean, even during COVID, I had like worked like every day straight for six months.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know. And there's some times it's like I gotta go to this event and this event, which is fine. I love going to these events, but then it's like, again, you know, in terms of self-care, like when do I have time to like take care of the things that I need to do for me?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And that's it's a challenge. It's a huge challenge, you know. That makes sense. But it's you know, but it's like, but would I give up my position just to have that time back? Like, no, I love what I do. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, I mean, every position has obstacles, right? And I'm just curious about specifically uh this one. Yeah, time management, I think, for a lot of leaders, right? That's like um yeah, getting assistant really quickly. I see a lot of folks you know doing. Um so I know we're we've talked about self-care stuff. Um, and this is a similar question, but it it's a little bit more specific to like let's just say everyday uh situations. Um when you get really frustrated or really overwhelmed, um if you do, I'm assuming. Oh yeah. Um what is the strategy you do to manage that?
SPEAKER_02:I think part of it is figuring out, okay, like what can I actually do in my capacity to help resolve this issue?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And really coming up with, okay, like what you know, here's this problem. Okay, like what's the solution? Like, what can we do about it? Yeah. And really trying to get to the root of what we can do. Yeah. Who do we need to contact? Yeah. Like who is this something that we need to be taking on? Or is this something that like county staff needs to take on? Or is this, you know, not my problem and somebody else needs to work on it? You know? Yeah. But really trying to figure out, okay, it's like, is this something that I am responsible for? Or is this something that I need to pass on to somebody else and hope, you know, that they can help resolve the issue? Um, because there are times when things come up and it's just like that is a horrible situation, and you're just hoping for the best, you know, but there's nothing, it's really out of your hands in terms of what you can do about it. Yeah. So I feel that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then and kind of um transitioning a little bit. I mean, this is kind of a funny question. Um, but like, what is I don't know, humor, joy, happiness, all that stuff? Like, I feel like those things are essential for our human experience, you know, and as a leader, uh it what's your example? What what is uh what do you think your role, those role, uh, the roles of humor and joy in being a leader in a pretty high stakes um position?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think you know, you still have to remember at the end of the day, you only get one life. Yeah. Right. And it's like you can't let all this get to you. And so for me, it's like always trying to find like the the joy in what we do day to day. Right. Um, and have a positive mindset. Yeah, going into all the situations.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And then, you know, I think to what you're saying too, it's like and not letting people bring me down. You know what I mean? It's like, look, man, I'm having too good of a day to hear, like, thanks for the criticism, but yeah, I'm gonna not let that get to me because it's like, because if you let all that get to you, it's like then you'd be sad, bitter, and angry. Yes. And for me, it's like I'm trying to be, I'm trying to come into every day, like waking up, going to work, happy to be alive, yeah, seeing what I gotta get done. You know, there's days where I wake up and I'm grumpy and you know, yeah, like didn't get enough sleep. Yeah. Didn't have a smoothie. Totally understand. But you know, it's like trying to find those moments of joy and and when, you know, when it's possible, insert a little bit of humor. Yeah. You know, and when you gotta fight, you gotta fight, you know. So but then I think also one of the things I've learned over the years being in the government is like even when we're on the dice and we're battling it out, it's like we're all coming from our perspective of where not just we're at, but where our community is at.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And and even if we lose in a vote, it's like, you know, all right, well, I lost that battle, but I'll be back again, you know, another day. And we can't hold it against people too, because and one of the things I I'll I'll say is that when whenever I meet somebody like coming into government, yeah, um, I always say, pick issues, don't pick sides. Like we can disagree on issues.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And that's fine. But once you pick a side, then that's a problem.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Because what that means is that you're gonna be unwilling to communicate with me and work with me on something that I know is important to you and the people who support you, but you're not gonna do it just because of who I am, right? Yes. And and I think that in the broader politics of our nation, we need to get away from that. Yeah. Right. We need to get back to focusing on the issues that impact our communities. We may disagree on, you know, certain topics, but at the end of the day, I'm like, you're still my boy, right? Yeah. And like, and I think that there's that that that's missing, right? It's like we like the ability to disagree and still be able to be somebody's friend, I think has been lost in a lot of ways. Yeah. And and it's something we really need to get back to. Because I think in doing so, we can we can have a disagreement, we can, you know, be upset, right? But then we can come back to a place of joy because we know that we, you know, work together in the community. We want to see the best for our community. But, you know, maybe on this issue, it's like, uh, you know, we got different opinions.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Man, that's such a great advice. I wrote that down right here and it circled it. Um, yeah, thank you for that. That that felt very refreshing. Uh, what advice on that note, like what advice would you give like leaders coming up, emerging leaders? You know, leaders who are who if they come to you and they're like, hey, I'm about to take on this executive role or join government. Like, what would be advice you would give these folks?
SPEAKER_02:Let's say one, you know, the people on the ground are the people who are gonna be able to tell you like what's going on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Um you're not put in your position to be the, you know, the wizard of oz to know everything that's going on and be the one who's right all the time. Yeah. Right. It's like really being able to go and humble yourself and and hear from the people who are being impacted, hear from the people who are doing the work, that's gonna best inform the decisions uh that people are gonna need to make, like the big decisions. Yeah. Right. Um I think also listening is a critical skill. Yeah. And being able to listen to people and hear them out and try to take their what they're giving you. I mean, like, you know, you're not sometimes it's like you listen to one person, you're not you're not supposed to do exactly what they want. But you have to feel out the community. Like, where are where are we at as like an organization? Yeah. Where are the staff at? Um, where are the clientele at? And really being able to take that in again when it's time to make those decisions.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and I think also just uplifting people, sometimes stepping out of the way and let others be in a position where they can lead. Yeah. Because part of being a leader is to help others see the leadership potential in themselves and have them step into those positions, right? Yeah. Um and, you know, if you're walking around angry all the time, that's gonna permeate down into the culture of the organization. Yeah. And so if you're coming in happy and you're coming enthusiastic, like that's gonna really resonate with folks too. And so it's like, what kind of culture do you want to have? And making sure that that culture is developed based on like who you are and what your expectations are of folks. Because the more that you can empower people and make them feel like they're um, you know, a part of a team, yeah, then the more the happier they're gonna be to come to work and to show up, right? Because they're like, yeah, I'm a part of something big. Like as a leader, like they see the you know, the potential in me and they're trying to bring that potential out of me. Yeah. And so then that's a bond that you're able to create with those folks with, you know, there's mutual respect now, right? Yeah. Versus barking orders at people because then because no one likes to be treated like that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So Man, great advice. And now I I just have some follow-up questions. Yeah. Here, I um I wrote down a series of follow-up questions. Oh no. Um, it just struck me. I just I I know so many different types of leaders in my life, right? You know, and something that has come up in is the relationship between like when when like what you were talking about, when are when do you become visible and when do you take the credit versus when you uplift somebody else, you know, and have like coach them into like doing something and kind of back away and not worry about like taking credit or whatever, you know, kind of because I've I've met some folks who who maybe don't want to like be in the the center, right? And they unless unless they have to, right? But they spend most of their time like like helping their team, right? Like be better, right? Behind the scenes, helping them, educating them, doing the things, and having them step up and take that light, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I'm wondering what what what do you think is the relationship between like being visible and well sometimes people don't want to be visible, but sometimes you need to put the spotlight on them to you know show your appreciation for them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But I think that what's most important is that, you know, even if it's like accepting an award, right? It's like for me, it's like this isn't about me. This is about all the people who helped make something happen.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And I think bringing people in and making sure that they're they're acknowledged is is something that um is a key trait in leadership.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because it's showing everybody out there that like, yeah, you're one person involved with this big group, and maybe you're the one who kind of spearheaded it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But you wouldn't be able to get to where you are without all the people around you who helped you get there. And I think acknowledging that is really critical. Yeah. Because it shows the people that again, you care about them, yeah, that their work matters, and that none of this could have gotten done without their help.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So yes, I completely agree with that. But let's say you're the leader, right? And you don't want the spotlight. Right. And so you kind of like back away a little bit. And you do that. You you you bring people in. They take most of the spotlight, but other people don't see that you're the leader, you know, because they're because you're you're doing such a good job at that, right? You know, is that you know, what do you what do you what is your what are your views on that kind of uh scenario?
SPEAKER_02:I think some if if that's a scenario you're putting that person forward, yeah, then let them go forward, you know, and be there to support them. Yeah, yeah. Right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because that's how you cultivate leadership.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And if they are getting the credit, it's like, yeah, give them the credit. Like they they did the work and they will know, like that person will know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And other folks will know that you were back there helping them, but they also recognize that you stepped out of the way to allow somebody else the opportunity to lead.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I love that. All right, Justin. Well, here's your time. You know, you can say whatever you want. How how can people find you? What advice do you have to everyone? What are lessons that you learn from leadership? What this is just your time to shine, you know. Um, yeah, tell me what's up, man. I think I shared a lot. I think I shared a lot of my my uh So how can people find you?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like some running for re-election, yeah. Cummings for Supervisor.com is the website to go find, you know, yeah, who I am, who we are, yeah, as you know, as a campaign and as a movement.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And you can sign up to endorse, you can sign up to volunteer, you can sign up for the newsletter, which is a great way just to stay in form with what we're doing. And then if there's you know a call to action, yeah, you know, show up and you know, let's let's meet and let's try to make the world a better place together. Perfect.
SPEAKER_01:Justin, it's been an honor, man. Always always always fun chatting with you. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thank you too. Yeah. This has been Speak for Change Podcast. I'm your host, Thomas H. Peterson. Thank you so much for listening and have a wonderful day. Peace.