Ep.153 Unraveling Shapes & Sounds of Freedom: Friendship, Art, and Authentic Expression

What does freedom mean to you? Join us as we unravel the concept of freedom through the unique perspectives of friendship and art. Our collaborative project, "The Shapes and Sounds of Freedom," springs from an unlikely yet profound friendship with Yayah. 

Our journey began with backyard gatherings filled with music, dance, and deep conversations, all of which shaped our understanding of energy and freedom. We share these heartwarming anecdotes and how they led to a multidisciplinary artistic venture that celebrates authentic expression.

Listen in on an intimate conversation with two musicians who open up about their creative journeys and the power of vulnerability. We discuss how shedding inhibitions and embracing new environments, like the experimental art venue Indexical, has been transformative. 

This episode also delves into the complexities of navigating red flags versus obstacles in relationships and projects. We explore the healing power of music and poetry, and the necessity of facing discomfort for personal growth and liberation.

Finally, we touch on the emotional intensity of the classical music world and the cathartic power of laughter. We reflect on our own experiences of balancing personal commitments with professional demands and the importance of honest communication. 

Through personal stories and candid discussions, we underscore the significance of authenticity and the joy of creating art with others. Don't miss out on this heartfelt exploration of personal growth, artistic liberation, and the beauty of genuine human connections.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:11

Hi, I'm your host, Thomas Sage Pedersen, and welcome to Speak for Change podcast, where we explore positive and lasting change in all areas of life. Yaya, welcome to Speak for Change podcast.

Speaker 2 0:24

Thank you, Thomas Sage Pettersen.

Speaker 1 0:28

So we're here to talk about our awesome, crazy project. It's like so precious. Now you know.

Speaker 2 0:37

So precious.

Speaker 1 0:38

Yeah, the shapes and sounds of freedom, and that is the right order.

Speaker 2 0:42

Is it Yep?

Speaker 1 0:43

I know that was part of the sounds and shapes is the right order. Is it Yep, yep?

Speaker 2 0:45

Okay, I know that was part of the, the sounds and shapes, the shapes and sounds, shapes and sounds. What comes first? Yeah, yeah, it doesn't really matter.

Speaker 1 0:51

Yeah.

Speaker 2 0:52

Yeah, it sounds nice, the shapes and sounds of freedom.

Speaker 1 0:55

Yeah, off the tongue. You know it's kind of crazy how we got here. You know, um, I'm starting to realize personally like I'm, I'm like so grateful for this experience. You know, like I even taught, I was talking to another friend who next month, like near the end of the month, they're like they want me to score like a poem thing or something and like so now I'm like man, like is my, is my life just going to be? Like musical, artistic, multidisciplinary projects.

Speaker 2 1:31

It seems, momentum is is um. That seems to be the truth. Yeah, momentum.

Speaker 1 1:36

Yeah, and so I want to hear from you kind of like what do you like, what do you think Like?

Speaker 2 1:47

how did we get here? Like you know, how did we get here. You know, you and I have had this friendship that has woven over time.

Speaker 1 1:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:54

Yeah, and it feels like this version of the iteration of our weaving and it's like, naturally, just out of spontaneous friendship, spontaneous moments emergent, fantastical, weird, freaking like laughter.

Speaker 1 2:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2 2:20

Where we're like what if we did this? Oh, what if we did this? Oh, what if we did this? Oh, what if we did this? Oh, what if we did this? And it's just like it was like following the crumbs. Yeah Of what if we did this? Oh my God, it'd be so fun to do this. And we're like, can we do this? Let's do this, let's see what it feels like to do this.

Speaker 1 2:39

Yeah, yeah, I think it's been. It's just beautiful. It's just I remember you know, like what's cool about our friendship is that it's been long, but it's been kind of like a weird, like not traditional and not like you know, we've been just like close the whole time or something.

Speaker 2 2:55

Yeah, like the weaving of like and I feel like this is what right. This is what creates great art.

Speaker 1 3:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2 3:06

Right, this is what right, this is what creates great art. Yeah, right is that is like um, the inhale and the exhale. We're, we're in here together and then we're apart, and then when we come back, there's like more we're different, there's more of us to share with.

Speaker 1 3:17

Yeah, yeah, I mean I love that and like just thinking about you know, there's a moment where you'd be like at at my house we're in the backyard chilling every day and it was like it was so beautiful, it was just like I just I appreciate that friendship, you know what I mean like it was just so nice to have like a homie to hang with and to be with and yeah and like we just like found ourselves doing weird things like you know, like weird dance moves, weird songs, like kind of just acapella vibes, weird philosophy talks.

Speaker 2 3:53

Yeah, being with the plants.

Speaker 1 4:00

Maybe that should be the flyer picture of you just like hovering over Thomas has this extraordinary.

Speaker 2 4:06

I don't even know what it is, what kind of plant, some kind of succulent, some kind of succulent with these huge multi-headed flowers and or like yeah, and I put my hands on it and it felt really good and I stayed there for a while.

Speaker 1 4:25

I mean yes. Yes, I just remember looking over to you like gently caressing these flowers. Nature is erotic and just being like oh, oh, wow, wow, and I'm like oh, wow, wow, and I'm like I don't know what to feel right now.

Speaker 2 4:49

Sarah you're like is this a voyeuristic moment?

Speaker 1 4:57

how are you doing, sarah?

Speaker 2 5:01

but you know what I feel like this. This really maps into a lot of but I can speak to my personal journey in our you know our approach in and through the shapes and sounds of freedom.

Speaker 1 5:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2 5:15

Is my relationship to energy and free energy. Yeah, like energy is free, energy is everywhere, everything is emanating energy and it feels like remembering, like that plant right Helping to remind me of who I am.

Speaker 1 5:45

Yeah, I think you know when you're, when you were like connecting with that plant and when we're doing all these fun things in the backyard.

Speaker 1 5:57

I think that was a topic that ended up just coming up over and over again, right. It was like this idea of freedom, right, and I think that is such a profound, like I still don't know what real freedom is, you know, if I really dive philosophically in it, but I feel there's a feeling that maybe doesn't have words or something you know, and I think when we are together, there's like this instant, like companionship around freedom, about wanting this feeling, wanting this, this energy that allows us to be our authentic selves. So it's almost like a shedding, you know, and I think yeah, I don't know I could, you know I'm only speaking for myself here, but like it definitely feels like the, the, the pre shapes and sounds of freedom, right, like before we decided even to do a project and all this stuff.

Speaker 2 6:51

It was happening to us.

Speaker 1 6:52

It was happening to us. And I think you we were helping each other?

Embracing Vulnerability Through Creativity

Speaker 2 6:56

Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 6:57

In this real way of like being able to shed things and like talk openly with each other and, like you know, more and more as time goes on, and I think it was just like one of those moments where I go we're like both musicians a lot like months in. You know what I mean. We're like. We're both like maybe we should make something.

Speaker 2 7:19

Yeah, dude, let's just play around yeah, you're like hey, do you want to play around? I'm like, yeah, let's just play around.

Speaker 1 7:24

Yeah, exactly're like hey do you want to play around? I'm like, yeah, let's just play around. Yeah, exactly, and we started making really interesting and beautiful things. You know what I mean, and I think that is so special, and I think this project is so much more than just music.

Speaker 1 7:42

It's just so much more than just like some surreal film it's, it's it's, you know, it's about us, it's about the people who who want liberation and want to explore that and, like I think, creating and being free to create, like you know being free to create, yeah, like like all creation is game yeah you know, and I think that, like I, I came home, I think the other night after we like rehearsed at the space, and I just had this phrase going off in my head um, because you know, I'm going through my own, like you know, notating stuff right now, and all this, all these things, and the thing that was going through my head was like like there's no wrong way to create. You know, it was just like this, unconscious, it's kind of like this like song, like a song that gets stuck in your head.

Speaker 1 8:30

You know, there's no wrong way to create. Yeah, and it was good. Yeah, and I was like man, like that's just what we are embodying, and I think being in this space, like seeing all the lights and the stage, is inspiring to me, and like seeing you like walk up on the thing and saying I'm like man, like I want to like and I'm having all these ideas now that I didn't have. Like when we were like just in, like my house rehearsing, you know now it's real, yeah, and environment, environment is a huge factor.

Speaker 2 9:00

It's like, like, like our environments is like they have such a huge effect on us and being in different extreme, like our environments is like they have such a huge effect on us. Yes, and being in different environments, like who do we get to become? Yeah, yeah, like who am I in this other environment? Who am I when I put on the red light?

Speaker 1 9:13

Yes.

Speaker 2 9:14

Who am I when I put on the blue light?

Speaker 1 9:15

Yeah, I think that's it's so good because, you know, being in Dexacol, the space, and like having the space to ourselves and just getting yeah we're just like getting in there, we're just hanging out, yeah thank you, you're the bomb shout out to give them some love.

Speaker 2 9:34

Yeah, if you don't know about him, yeah, yeah, now you know if you feel charitable throw them a donation?

Speaker 1 9:40

yeah, because if you don't know who Indexical is, they are an experimental art venue and I've talked to the founder, who's not here anymore.

Speaker 2 9:53

Andrew.

Speaker 1 9:53

Yeah, Andrew, Shout out to Andrew, New executive director of the lab. I think in.

Speaker 2 10:01

San Francisco.

Speaker 1 10:04

He was. So he was like we just needed a space Like this was like he was before he even had a venue. You know, he just they needed to create a space for musicians and artists to be able to test things, to experiment, to play, to like, just get Explore sounds.

Speaker 2 10:22

Explore, sounds explore images, images explore all the things.

Speaker 1 10:25

Yeah, and I think with the arts we're so, sometimes we're so stuck in, like our genre or our, our persona.

Speaker 2 10:35

You know that it's freeing to experiment yeah, and I also feel like the like, the difference maybe between a performance and an experience. Yeah, and like as a I've done both, like I've I've been on a stage and I performed yeah and I've been on a stage and really felt what it was like to be experiencing myself in the moment. Yeah, and what a fucking freedom that is like I don't even know it's happening until it happens yeah, and I think that is what this is becoming.

Speaker 1 11:10

This is becoming an experience yeah you know what I mean, where I even find myself like I'm having to do things that are really uncomfortable we both are yeah and same with Misha. Yeah, and shout out to misha yeah, misha scott, yeah, and you know, and that what that does is like it does feel like an out of a body kind of experience. I don't know for me. I look, I look at myself and I'm like man, I'm doing the thing and I'm uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 11:41

I'm like uncomfortably looking at myself and then I'm like, oh wow, like, but, but at the same time, I am filled with so much love and and almost pride, because I'm like I'm doing the thing. Yeah, I'm, I'm doing it and I'm experiencing it and I'm playing it and I'm here and I'm here and I'm like being real. I'm letting myself do these things because I feel like it's adding to this experience you know yeah. And I think this is a beautiful thing.

Speaker 2 12:16

Yeah, I feel like there's in response to you sharing that my process I think it's like it's just been my whole life process is actually like being in my body.

Speaker 1 12:29

Yeah.

Speaker 2 12:29

Like actually like feeling my ankles and my feet and like really living in my, my belly, yeah, and and like from this place being fully present.

Speaker 1 12:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2 12:40

And so like there's like this process for me too is is actually like like less about seeing myself do anything and just really like breathing through whatever is like part of my journey and actually really fully inhabiting my body and being able to exist as flesh and have all the senses and be able to make the sounds and the shapes and be an animal that can consciously choose to do things.

Speaker 1 13:24

I think that's lovely, you know, I think, and I love the embodiment. I think that's why, at least for the majority of the show, I want to be standing and in that space, because I feel the same in regards to like really connecting with my body, but also connecting with that primal self, like you're talking about that wild self, and I think there's this aspect of like what I'm doing, like the looking like a spoken word thing or something like that, where I'm letting myself be a channel.

Speaker 1 13:54

You know I'm letting, I'm letting myself connect to this like the hidden part of myself you know in front of people Right, and so I think that is scary, but I also think that is so impactful.

Speaker 2 14:09

Yeah, I feel like it's. It's extraordinarily vulnerable.

Speaker 1 14:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2 14:13

And it's also extraordinarily empowering yeah Right To really own yourself and own your channel in the presence of others.

Speaker 1 14:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2 14:21

Is is I'm like come on please.

Speaker 1 14:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2 14:25

Lord, you know, of whatever May I become may I you know like, um, that's what we're here and I, I, I feel like the, like the also this theme in our relationship between us, and like we had the the first podcast on emergence.

Speaker 1 14:43

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 14:43

Right, the first podcast on emergence. Oh yeah, Right. And this is like a deeper, more embodied, I feel like iteration of that conversation that we were getting actually to do and that experience and that experience, yeah, yeah, to actually this whole project was an effortless emergence. Yeah Right, like we it was so easy.

Speaker 1 15:06

It was it was it emerged out of our relationship every merge, it emerged out of our relate, everything's relational I love.

Speaker 1 15:12

I'm like come on, like he's here, like it's just but we were, we were. I think what, what? The truth, the real poesy is like we. We allowed ourselves to let the things emerge that's it, you know like like to the point where we almost like trained ourselves, like I remember, like hanging out and you would like, like there was moments where we would both do some like really interesting things, like walking back and forth with our hands. Oh, where I was like doing some queer.

Speaker 2 15:41

We were like shapes.

Speaker 1 15:42

We were shapes right. We were like, oh, the shapes of freedom, right the sounds of freedom, oh the shapes.

Speaker 2 15:46

Like what if your body feels like this yeah. Like this, like what is it? Yeah, and we would just like be walking around in my little backyard thing just like in these weird shapes moving around, and it was like we were training ourselves to let this project emerge, to surrender and trust, yeah, and allow and allow, yeah.

Speaker 1 16:08

In the interval of the intelligent free energy between us, yeah, yeah, and I think that that is just so special. I don't think I've ever experienced that really, you know, on like a real authentic level.

Speaker 2 16:18

Completely uncontrived yeah.

Speaker 1 16:20

Like there was no yeah Like.

Speaker 2 16:26

And it just seemed like the universe was hooking us up, because I was like it was hooking.

Speaker 1 16:28

I was like we were like, hey, we should do something, right. I was like okay, what if we do something on indexical?

Speaker 2 16:31

yeah, you know, and I like reached out to michael.

Speaker 1 16:33

Michael was like michael um flora, who's the executive director of uh indexical. He was like he's like, oh yeah, sounds good, you want a residency.

Speaker 2 16:44

Like, basically just like, oh my.

Speaker 1 16:45

God, what is that? What? Yeah, sure you know, and I love how there's been just this, like the path had been so clear, you know.

Speaker 2 16:57

And I want to say I want to like, I want to honor the road that was walked the roads that have been walked right and like us, like we've walked so many roads, yeah, and you have your own kind of like, like really potent, unshedding that you can share if you know, like your, your own kind of like. You're like I'm taking off a lot of old clothing yeah and I feel like I was in this place where I had just come out of disrobing everything, like really taking off everything, and just being like whoa, like I don't even know who I am, what am I doing?

Speaker 2 17:37

Like creation, what does it look like coming through me? Like I can't do anything that I've done before, like it doesn't feel right. Those shapes don't feel authentic to the being that I have become. And so us kind of coming in together and these moments, this kind of like this, like yeah, like kind of approach, this swirling approach as we're approaching each other right Like life, is kind of like offering us with the momentum that we came with, is just kind of like offering us with the momentum that we came with.

Speaker 2 18:06

It's just kind of like just shooting us into this, the unknown.

Speaker 1 18:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2 18:14

Right Truly, and so there was already something in process.

Speaker 1 18:23

Yeah, that we decided to trust and allow in process. Yeah, and I yeah.

Speaker 2 18:25

Yeah, that we, that we decided to trust and allow.

Speaker 1 18:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah and I mean to speak even further on that like it was very, it's very interesting, cause it's like when we were like creating together, there was these moments where it was just the authentic creation, right.

Speaker 2 18:45

And then when we got into like time to do the band thing right, you know, time to do the band thing that's where the work happened, yeah, and so where, you know, we had to practice songs and like, do these, do these things?

Speaker 1 18:54

and I think what was really potent was that, like there were parts of me that still are that are defensive and like have have my own way of operating, right, you know, when it comes to collaborations or whatever, and it was interesting. It was something about how Yaya here, how she communicates, and it was like it touched these wounds for some reason, you know, and it was painful and I got defensive and angry and the parts of myself that I feel shameful about, you know, and I tried to back out. You know, I tried to back out Keyword tried. If you're not watching the video, yaya is just giving me a dirty ass.

Speaker 2 19:48

Look right now.

Speaker 1 19:50

And because, like I you know that was my pattern when things come too uncomfortable to the point where I'm like almost sickened, I run.

Navigating Liberation Through Creative Collaboration

Speaker 1 19:57

Know, yeah, I'll be like I'm out you know like this isn't just congruent, whatever like you know, but I had to really check in with myself, because not everything that feels that specific way is bad. And I think, I think from my, from my experience you know, I'd love to hear your, your point of on this Is that I realized and this was through reflection that there are obstacles and there are flags like red flags, right, you know, and sometimes they look exactly the same, you know what I mean. Like when you're in a relationship, when you're in like a project or whatever, like certain things come up that are like are this a red flag or is this an obstacle that you need to overcome? You know, and this situation in the past has been a red flag and but in this specific situation end up being an obstacle that I just had to like face and to like move through and to like feel the discomfort. And it kind of worked out perfectly because, like, the festival happened and so the Cabrillo Festival.

Speaker 2 21:07

Yeah, Cabrillo.

Speaker 1 21:08

Festival. So I was like in work mode in that world and being inspired by all these musicians, and then you were going through deeper processes with like your own life through deeper processes with like your own life, and by the time we came back to each other, you know, after having our conversation, where I chose not to leave you know and it was perfect. It was divine timing, like I needed that time, but I also needed that inspiration and that perspective shift, you know.

Speaker 2 21:38

And I feel like this is and I think maybe I might have mentioned this in our conversation, but you know but like this is what, this is what the fuck we're doing. Like, like, like, like we're not getting out of here alive man, like I was, like I remember I was telling her I was like I like this is done.

Speaker 1 21:58

You're like well, that's it. And.

Speaker 2 21:59

I'm like, I think I said something like I wholeheartedly reject.

Speaker 1 22:02

Oh, that's exactly what you said, yeah. That you're saying right now yeah, that's exactly what you said. That's exactly what you said and I was like well, well, how do you respond to?

Speaker 2 22:13

that.

Speaker 1 22:15

And I remember, like I just saw, and I remember I was like I think I said even the word demon, I felt like a demon side of me came out and you're like don't let the demon steal away our freedom. And then we ended up just disconnecting and we met up later in that day and that's when I kind of just decided I was like no, I think this is something I need to face. And when I look back at it and I see myself now I am 300 percent happy that I did. You know what? I mean that I stuck through it because it's kind of funny, because we're singing these songs and saying these words, and they almost became affirmations and they and they happened this is you know, like it was crazy, like this is like, like for me, like, like poetry and writing songs, like save, like it saved my life yeah, I understand

Speaker 2 23:10

you know, and this is, this is how I engage life, this is how I stay here, this is how I engage life, this is how I stay here, this is how I can continue to feel joy, this is how I can shed. This is the magic miracle that we get to choose to engage. It's not just some thing that I'm like. I've had different iterations, like in Los Angeles, I was just blessed with the most amazing community poetry community and really was born. My voice got born with them and then, as soon as I felt that I was, I was no longer doing it.

Speaker 2 24:06

For that feeling of of change, of of liberation, where there was some of my felt like, like I'm kind of replicating the thing, or there's like some of my, like my ego, like, oh, I do I need this to feel good about myself now.

Speaker 2 24:22

Like, do I need this? Like, oh, they liked it, oh yeah, you know, like as soon as I, as soon as I start to feel that it's like my channel starts to dissolve, it's like I don't have access anymore, as soon as that energy begins to take over, I begin to actually lose power. And I've gone through that several times, even with kind of like I fucking love Yaya's Kitchen and Toby, and I really got to come out, because I wasn't a full-on singer when I left Los Angeles. I got to come out and cause I wasn't like a full on singer when I left Los Angeles, I got to, I got to like become that here and then, and then I was like oh, like why, what am I doing this for again? Like what is this again Right? And so all this to say that like in in in this, like you know, like I've been holding this with us, I hold this with us Right.

Speaker 2 25:19

That, like this, is for our liberation. This is for. This is why we're here to like to bring through the medicine.

Speaker 1 25:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2 25:28

And medicine makes some parts better, while other things die.

Speaker 1 25:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2 25:35

Right. So so we're dying and we're being born at the same time, and there's no way around it. It's why we're here. It's what we're doing. It's the only way out is through.

Speaker 1 25:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2 25:47

And that on the other side of this, and I went through my own thing where I was like you know, like I've had father-daddy issues, I've had issues with like in my relationships and I'm like even Thomas is running away from me. I was like what the fuck is wrong with me, like I can't, like I say things and it hurts people, or I say things I'm too direct, or like they you know they they're, they won't sit in the truth with me, you know, and like all these old, all these old stories and like so I got to sit in my own fire for, like you know, six hours that day. I'd be like fuck. I even like I chased off Thomas cause I was like too much. Right, I poked at the thing again, cause I'm good at poking at the motherfucking thing, but like that, that, that we both got our things poked.

Speaker 1 26:42

Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:42

I poked you and you poked me.

Speaker 1 26:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:44

And we needed to get poked.

Speaker 1 26:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:46

In those places that we were still stuck.

Speaker 1 26:49

Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:50

In order for us to make it through into freedom, into the freedom that we, that we agreed that we were, that we were going to be stepping into.

Speaker 1 27:03

Yeah, I love that because, for one, I think our relationship in the past maybe of years, has been one of freedom. Naturally, you know, even when we did the emergence conversation we had a little hiccup before then.

Speaker 2 27:32

Yes, this is our pattern.

Speaker 1 27:33

We can trust it, right. But it's like in that time it was hard for me to be me like, accept who I was in public and like somehow that statement poke that button which is not a, not as much of a thing anymore.

Speaker 1 27:51

Yeah, you know it's like transformed into something else, yeah, and like. So I think our, you know, I think our relationship is divine. You know what I mean In the sense of like we are here to help each other, at least in this part, you know, because, like we are doing such amazing things and I'm so proud and so excited about what we're doing that I, you know, bought that crazy phone mic today.

Speaker 1 28:20

You know, you know and now all these ideas are coming Right and like it's like we're liberating ourselves in the process of, like we already thought we were liberated. Now we're like, oh man, we have a stage, we have this, we have all this stuff, you know you know, and I think that's just brilliant right.

Speaker 2 28:37

And I was thinking today I was talking to the homie and he was asking about the project and I was kind of explaining some of the things. I was like, yeah, we do have a couple scripted songs.

Speaker 1 28:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2 28:50

Right, we have some other songs where they're slightly scripted, but there's like you know, there's movement and then there's going to be some just emergent freeform kind of freestyling kind of vibes right. But the songs, at least the ones that we created together, came from freestyles.

Speaker 1 29:11

Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 29:12

They were not, they came, we pressed record and they just came out of us.

Speaker 1 29:16

So that was literally like I thought that was the issue I was focused on, Like you know, in that one time I didn't get a chance to explore it or whatever, yeah, but I realized that wasn't the case and I think I was like just tripping out on some other shit you know but like. What's really cool about that, too, is that it's kind of like we didn't do it intentionally really, but maybe you did. But you know, for me it was like we record these songs that we just made up in the moment yeah literally in the moment and we, and we just went over it.

Speaker 2 29:51

We didn't even know what's gonna happen. Yeah, we just went over it and what's cool about that?

Speaker 1 29:55

some of the songs that we've composed have this real organic feel yeah you know this real like like um truth wave I I still love truth wave, you know, because it just has this weird airy feel that's almost hard to replicate, you know I love you're like I still love truth, like we.

Speaker 2 30:15

Just we just started it's, I know, but like it's been, it's been, it's been. You don't not love it.

Speaker 1 30:22

It's been with me for a while.

Speaker 2 30:24

You know, you've been, you've been embodying.

Speaker 1 30:26

Yeah, and so it's been like okay.

Speaker 2 30:28

It's kind of like how do we replicate the miracle?

Speaker 1 30:31

Yes, Right, yeah which is a struggle, you know. But then there's like the element of like incorporating the miracle part, which is just our relationship with each other, musically and just you know, we just vibe like when we jam or we improvise and we create, we are like, literally, it's like there's this intelligence in the room that we create around. Like we don't even have to think about it.

Speaker 2 30:57

It just happens because of just who we are and I think there's, like you know, there's some people that when I get around and I like my system feels inhibited and it's harder for me and there's some people that I get around and I'm like woo, I'm a genius, I'm brilliant and I feel, like our systems permission, that frequency for each other, which is so fulfilling and sweet, I think, when we I feel like our systems permission, that that frequency for each other, yeah, I definitely so fulfilling.

Speaker 1 31:21

I think when I, when, like, I think a little bit, I think at first it was kind of like I was like, okay, Like cause you had a thing where you would always like at the end you'd be like, okay, I need to do this or do that, or this is the thing.

Speaker 2 31:35

Well, this is my medicine, right?

Speaker 1 31:36

Yeah, is it okay if I yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 31:39

Like my medicine and I have been in like high level projects and teams where we're like okay, cut the fat, get in there, cut the fat.

Speaker 1 31:50

How was that?

Speaker 2 31:50

That was great. Do this yeah yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 31:53

And then I also like support people in clearing trauma. So, like I, a lot of times my thinking is tracking for the thing that is, you know, that needs attention or doesn't need to be here anymore. And how sharp that is and, inside of like, how sharp my voice was and has been between us when I'm like we do an amazing thing. And then I'm like we do an amazing thing and then I'm like, oh wait, ok, that's great, but let's just not do this part, and you're like, can you at least say that it was good for us?

Speaker 1 32:26

Yeah, it's been really funny because, like for me, I've been ultra critical of myself, of everything, and so like I hear the things that I need to fix.

Speaker 2 32:35

And so I'm like like it's just extra, when I'm like, right, and that's been a problem, like since I was a kid, you know like like come off.

Speaker 1 32:42

Yeah, it's like I perform uh-huh and so I pretend like I did not make a mistake. You know what I mean. So I'm like I didn't like that, but I'm not going to show anybody that I didn't like that because, I've been an audience member and I see, I look at people's faces, you know, and I see, I see them like or like do like yeah.

Speaker 1 32:59

And they're like oh my God, clearly was it. And so I've just kind of like own it. So what that looks like to other people is that maybe he just doesn't know that something happened, or this didn't sound good or something like that. Yeah, and so so what I? But then I I'm very positive because I look at the bigger space. I have the ability now because I've recorded so much jams.

Speaker 2 33:19

And I'm like that sounded amazing and I like to look at the like, verbalize the positive first Because it acknowledges that the majority of it was good 100%. There's just little things that need to be hammered out, which I already.

Navigating Friendship Through Laughter and Music

Speaker 1 33:33

I trust that I know it and I know that you know it. Like you hear it, you know, and I know that you, you know what, like you hear it, you know, and I trust that I hear it and I think it. It really it's. This is a weird story, but it roots back to, like my old um, I've told you this, I think but my old, uh, orchestration teacher. Who's teaching me how to you know compose for orchestra?

Speaker 1 33:51

and stuff like that, all the different instruments and he was like he was in a class once. He was teaching uh, music appreciation as well, like music history, and he said to a bunch of room, a bunch of musicians who are, you know, going, who've committed to the music degree. He was committed. You know that you are. I'm not going to tell you how important this is or like what needs that, cause you guys are 10 times as harder on yourselves than I could be on you Right.

Speaker 1 34:19

And I know a lot of musicians and that's extremely true, definitely in the classical world, you know.

Speaker 2 34:29

And so for me, I come from that, technically, I come from that tradition, you know well. Yeah, I mean me too, yeah, and I'm externalizing it on you right, so it's kind of like there's, there's ways like like y'all we've been in it. Like like, just like, yeah, we've cried, we've cried, we've like argued. You know, this is a real like, it's a real life yeah this is real life yeah and so this, this project, has so much real life in it yes right momentum of real life, real footsteps, yeah, real shadow real shadow real kind of like.

Speaker 2 34:59

I'm like oh, look at that reflection. Sarah cruz, aka, yeah, yeah, you know like, let's like step into who we want to be and yeah and I do want to be able to celebrate my world more. I do want to be able to like I'm just like, I'm just thinking about like our last rehearsal.

Speaker 1 35:18

I was like that was great and you're like that was great.

Speaker 2 35:23

Was I like extra and I was like.

Speaker 1 35:25

I was like she's trying. I was like this is good, I'll take it.

Speaker 2 35:33

I'm like, do you see me celebrating it, thomas, I'm like was that good?

Speaker 1 35:37

You're like, that was amazing.

Speaker 2 35:42

I felt it in my body.

Speaker 1 35:44

I felt it. I'm like, I'm not going to even I know. I felt it when it came out and I saw your face and I was like let's just keep moving.

Speaker 2 35:57

I'm like I'm trying, I tried, I tried.

Speaker 1 36:01

I just love it so much.

Speaker 2 36:05

I just started laughing because and this is it like, because we're doing the thing we get to laugh at ourselves along the way, yeah absolutely even when we feel like we're dying, or when the person that we just thought was our best friend, what 30 seconds ago is now our mortal enemy thanks, sarah glad.

Speaker 1 36:28

I didn't pick up that second phone call, mortal enemy. Thanks, sarah Glad.

Speaker 2 36:32

I didn't pick up that second phone call. I was getting ready to come. Yeah, I was going to come hard, but like, but, like, fundamentally, the ground of love, right, the ground of laughter, yeah, and that like, like I don't laugh as hard with anybody else like it's like.

Speaker 1 36:50

I've laughed, I've almost died because of our laughter remember like early, early on you were like stop, please, stop.

Speaker 2 36:55

Yeah. I was like just stop, just stop. I like felt like I'm gonna have a heart attack.

Speaker 1 37:00

I'm like what a great way to die. But like like laughter has been like at a core, like like like thing that is in our friendship and I think yeah. And. I think, it's it's beautiful to go through these landscapes.

Speaker 2 37:18

Right.

Speaker 1 37:18

Of like almost like intensity, and then free, like just kind of like free flow, and then laughter and then like all these different state of beings with somebody, and then like create these like beautiful things just organically out of that.

Navigating Communication Through Music and Vulnerability

Speaker 2 37:38

There's like energy keeps the free. Energy gets to keep moving. It takes different shapes and form, but it's still like it can get stuck yeah, totally right and, and that's like I feel, like if I had an immortal enemy yeah it would be stuck energy, like for me in my life, like that's the thing that I I've been trying to slay forever. Then I'm like fuck, maybe I just need to love you.

Speaker 1 38:06

I'm so sorry, you know maybe I just need to say positive yeah exactly, exactly, and they're like I am pretty cool, am I yeah?

Speaker 2 38:16

yeah, so this, like this, in these ways, where we were like this is medicine, this is healing, we are doing trauma clearing, yeah, and we are like and you do help me, like, like, like, really like when, even when I'm improvising, it's not, I don't, I don't feel trapped at all, I feel free.

Speaker 1 38:36

But then I also start to actually, you know, because you said something you didn't say. I'm not listening, but you did say something around like our, your, our listening seems to be not congruent or something like.

Speaker 2 38:49

You know some.

Speaker 1 38:52

I like it felt like it wasn't going equally both ways yes, right, which triggered the hell out of me um, but but it's also given me the opportunity to be like okay, am I listening here, you know what I mean like just just to make sure and and like I know you value, like you know, like making sure, like we are like in connection, and that kind of reassurance of like looking over at you Because I like to close my eyes a lot- when I'm in it. And I'll make sure to kind of look over and make sure you're like you're in it.

Speaker 2 39:22

And I'll be like okay, cool, you know, like just to like, like, make sure there's no this is good. Well, this is also like like right, like there's a like I have attachment wounds. Yeah I'm like, I'm like. I had a childhood where I'm like did they hear me? Yeah are they listening?

Speaker 1 39:34

no, I did.

Speaker 2 39:35

They just turn away like what's happening, understand right and if I'm not getting the cues that I'm used to getting. I'm like what's that? Did he? What's happening?

Speaker 1 39:43

but but it. But it helped. It helps me know you.

Speaker 2 39:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1 39:47

You know what I mean Like and love you. You know, thank you. And so it's like when I'm playing, I'm like, okay, like, okay, and it feels. It feels more flow. Now, like I, we had to kind of go through this.

Speaker 2 39:58

Well, we.

Speaker 1 40:03

I feel like there's ways where we so.

Speaker 2 40:04

For a while it was like two cooks in the kitchen and we're like who's like what's happening? Here, and then also there's also different ways where I'm like I'm a songwriter, so I'm like I'm writing lyrics and I'm like, oh wait, I thought you were going to play it this way this time, because I wrote a lyric to this.

Speaker 1 40:23

So it would go, so it would land.

Speaker 2 40:25

And you're like but we're still exploring, and I'm like I wrote the lyric to this thing.

Speaker 1 40:33

I'm like, oh no, no, no, it's worse.

Speaker 2 40:35

I'm not this terrible, everybody Please. No, it's OK, I am.

Speaker 1 40:39

I have my mind, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding, I accept my things. Or, like you know, like, oh, you're going to play guitar on this one. I'm like I don't know, I was just trying something new.

Speaker 2 40:54

Sarah. Yeah, yeah, and then I'm like, if I say the things, you're going to be grumpy at me. So what's the best way I can say the things?

Speaker 1 41:00

That's also an issue that I'm working the defensiveness, but that's the positive side of this.

Speaker 2 41:07

All the dynamics are here. All the dynamics are here, all the dynamics.

Speaker 1 41:10

I'm not as crazy defensive now. Because I feel like this has happened multiple times in my life, where I get defensive over very mundane things and someone tells me real hey, I'm scared to tell you things Because I don't know if you're going to respond in a negative way, and I have trauma with that and I'm like okay, I've, I've shifted that before, you know, and now it's.

Speaker 1 41:36

This situation is really beautiful because it allowed me to like it's already been shifted, but then it's really allowed me to look at it and just sit with it and be like okay, like what are you, you know? Like who is this? Like it wasn't just an okay, I'll change, you know it was a let me look at this.

Speaker 2 41:53

Yeah.

Speaker 1 41:54

And like really just figure out what the hell this thing is Like what do? You and I think you know it has some it could. Oh, I should have done X, Y, z or maybe I got like caught up in whatever, like the piano thing, I could have been like you know. Oh, I just want to try the guitar.

Speaker 2 42:13

Or just communicate what you're doing.

Speaker 1 42:14

Yeah, just communicate, right, and even since a kid, it's always been hard for me to communicate what I'm doing, and it's why. I spent a lot of time alone as a child Because I was like, oh, I don't want to explain, like my imaginary world, or like have to explain all this stuff to people. But that's been the biggest thing that has changed my life is being able to communicate that stuff you know being able to like.

Authentic Communication and Self-Integration

Speaker 1 42:40

Thank you, speak to that truth and like really understand words and and to describe the thing instead of just like be super blunt or just like back away or just you know, just do these like easy, like transitions, I'm like, and since this has happened, one of the results have been I can't think of it specifically, but I was in like a text thing with somebody you know.

Speaker 1 43:05

I don't know who or what I forgot, but I remember being overwhelmed. I remember being like, oh no, like I don't know who or what I forgot, but I remember being overwhelmed. I remember being like oh no, like like I don't know what to do, or say it's like well, I can just communicate the thing you know, and I think I know it sounds so fundamental, but it was like I, or I could just say how the?

Speaker 2 43:24

thing?

Speaker 1 43:25

like you know oh, I remember it was like one of my friends who's also a client I didn't realize how crazy the festival was going to be, you know, the Cabrillo Festival of Contemporary Music.

Speaker 1 43:36

I didn't realize how much energy I'd be putting into it and how tired and exhausted I would be, and we had a scheduled appointment on like a day and I was like, oh man, like I am super burnt, you know, and I didn't want to just like like bail on him or just be like you know, cancel him. He takes, like you know meeting seriously you know all this stuff.

Speaker 1 43:59

And I was like man, like well, how am I going to do this, you know? And I was like I could just communicate honestly and I just was like listen, like listen, I didn't know, I just got on the board of this and I didn't know how much volunteering it would take. You know, I didn't gauge that correctly. Yeah, I was like next year, I know now that these two weeks are going to be like off.

Speaker 1 44:20

Yes, you know, and you know I apologize, but we have to reschedule you know, because I really need to just take time anytime I can get and they were super understanding you know, but just being able to have that clarity and communicate instead of just like, sorry, I have to cancel or sorry, just like, kind of just like doing these things that are not really explaining the situation in a real, authentic way that could deepen the connection.

Speaker 2 44:46

That can deepen the connection and like I feel, like like just coming back to right, like the title here of like the sounds and shapes of freedom, is that like I just am getting to be me more authentically more often in the way that I move and the way that I speak and the sounds that come out of my body and the gestures that I make in response, right Inside of relationship.

Speaker 1 45:10

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 45:11

Right, because there's nothing outside of that.

Speaker 1 45:13

It's so true.

Speaker 2 45:14

Everything is in relationship to something.

Speaker 1 45:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2 45:19

And so like how much of me actually gets to be here now.

Speaker 1 45:25

I think that's like completely real and it reminds me of like the quote I think it was by Brene Brown or Glennon Doyle or one of those you know, folks, and it was like courage is when your insides match the outsides and I think, through this relationship and this creation, creative process it's been, that's been the.

Speaker 1 45:50

the line between who I authentically am and my persona, or the external side of me, has been slowly like integrating, you know, and the communication piece that I was mentioning before is just like a part of that, like being able to talk to the part of myself, the authentic part of myself, like what's really happening here, you know, and that wouldn't have happened if we didn't have that moment of extreme discomfort.

Speaker 2 46:21

Yeah, you know what I mean. Like, yeah, and being able to receive it, yeah, and and and trust it and not and not run.

Speaker 1 46:30

Yes, it yeah and, and and trust it and not and not run, yes, like I tried, you know, but I came back, yeah, and I think that was best decision, you know, and it was a risk, I, I was listening to god, if anything, you know like or the universe or whatever you want to call it, like trusting some other thing that I needed yeah, that I needed to follow through with this, even though advice from a trusted source it was like sounds like. You guys are just not compatible.

Speaker 1 46:56

And I was like no, I don't think authentically, I don't think that's real.

Speaker 2 47:01

I think there's something else, and so I'm proud of myself for listening to my heart and that part of you gets to be to my heart, you know, yeah and so, and that part of you gets to be held in the love of the music. Now, yeah, Now it's like, instead of like, siloed you know, like away in some like dark chamber.

Speaker 1 47:19

Dark chamber. Yeah, don't you know Exactly. Yeah, stay in there.

Speaker 2 47:25

More of you gets to be here.

Speaker 1 47:27

Yeah. Like all the parts yes, yeah, I'm really excited.

Speaker 2 47:32

So here we are yeah, right, and I just I want to say this one last thing too like, yeah, that I'm so grateful for the way that I have felt seen by you, oh, the way that I have felt supported by you, the way that I have felt supported and you're like I see it Like let's help bring it out, like let's come on, let's help bring it out. And I have had, I've been blessed, I've had a lot of people be like hey, sarah, let's help bring it out.

Speaker 2 48:09

And it's been really hard for's help bring it out and it's been a really hard for me to bring it out yeah just because of the layers of of time that that I walked through as it as, mostly as a young girl and then like as an adult woman, just trying to get out of the layers um, that like like feeling like I have a real like brother, yeah, like a real like family member, ally, who sees my essence and is like I'm here for it. Let's do it like I can. I can I help. Can I help you?

Speaker 2 48:40

this is also fun for me yeah right, I want to do this too yeah and I want to help you, and and in this iteration of my growth, my creative expression, my discovery of what is the new version of this ya-ya creature that is wanting to emerge, that just to have your presence and your um, your, your mirroring, your reflection, like I'm like, oh, I do exist.

Speaker 2 49:14

Oh, I do exist and there's someone here that can see me and hear me, um, which it? You know, it may sound like silly, but it's, it's a fundamental, extraordinary thing for me. Um, for this particular part of my being, and, uh, I I'm just, I just feel like like so blessed and grateful to have um a friend and an ally and a teammate, yeah, yeah to to like walk through and become with. Yeah, thank you so much, damn it.

Speaker 1 49:45

And become with.

Speaker 2 49:47

Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 49:49

Damn it Gave me all emotional, yeah, but the feeling's mutual, yeah, you know, like I don't know, it's easy to see you, you know, and I think it's just, I think you're already amazing and I think it's just been like getting to know you. It's like, wow, like you are, you're just going to blow up. You know what I mean. Like like as yourself, you know.

Speaker 2 50:18

I just want to be me more fully me. That's like my holy prayer and it's like why?

Speaker 1 50:22

aren't we doing this? Why aren't we being free?

Speaker 2 50:24

You know why are we out there like being?

Speaker 1 50:27

weird and doing weird stuff. It doesn't make any sense why we're not. You know.

Speaker 2 50:31

Yeah.

Speaker 1 50:31

It's like. It's like old programming stuff, old programming that like doesn't exist now.

Speaker 2 50:35

Yeah, we bow to it Like we bow to it wholeheartedly. I bow wholeheartedly to the, the, the mechanisms and the shapes and the sounds that, like, survived me. Yeah, helped me to survive and get me here yeah and like whoo, I'm really, I'm ready to take off those old clothes and, and you know, be adorned by the universe oh, yeah, yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1 50:59

This is gonna be an amazing show yeah, I'm so excited. Thank you, so the show is called shapes and sounds of freedom. You two showings, the 30th and the 31st yes, and we have a let's Talk Freedom talk, where we're just going to talk about what freedom means to everybody and just kind of diving deeper into our process and your process and everybody's process.

Speaker 2 51:25

who's involved?

Speaker 1 51:26

And be in the space.

Speaker 2 51:28

And that's on the 21st 21st.

Speaker 1 51:30

Yeah, august 21st, wednesday the 21st. So if you want to, come.

Speaker 2 51:33

If you're in Santa Cruz, you want to come.

Speaker 1 51:34

What time are we doing that? I know, yeah, we should figure that out. We're going to figure it out, so just stay tuned. Yeah.

Speaker 2 51:42

Evening like Wednesday evening.

Speaker 1 51:43

Yeah, wednesday evening. Yeah, wednesday evening, yeah, yeah, I think we'll post about it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 51:48

But come talk freedom. Share your freedom stories.

Speaker 1 51:50

share, yeah, Share where you might feel stuck and want support and come to the show and come and like come, feeling like you want to be liberated you know like let yourself let yourself, feel the experience, you know.

Speaker 2 52:04

And.

Speaker 1 52:04

I think that's going to be special. It's an intimate setting and it's at Indexical, which is at the Tannery Arts Center in Santa Cruz. And spread the word. Help us spread the word. Personal liberation is everything.

Speaker 2 52:18

Personal liberation is everything, and inside of like there's so much. Our world is so struggling, right now in so many ways. So, many like yeah, but like being able to come home to self, yeah, and and be the author, the sovereign um architect, of my own felt sense of freedom, that in my mind, I am the creator yeah like, let's, let's, come home together and, and, and continue to, to, to create our world from the inside out. This is the emergence absolutely, yeah, well, yaya.

Speaker 1 52:56

It's been an honor to chat with you again on the podcast this time yes, thank you, thomas h petterson.

Speaker 2 53:03

This has been thomas h petterson, we speak Change Podcast.

Speaker 1 53:08

Thank you so much for listening.