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Speak For Change With Thomas Sage Pedersen
Welcome to Speak for Change with Thomas Sage Pedersen! Our mission is to inspire and promote positive and lasting change in our local & global communities.
Speak For Change With Thomas Sage Pedersen
Ep.151:Unlocking Musical Genius: A Conversation with Grammy-Nominated Composer Anna Clyne
https://www.annaclyne.com/
What sparks creativity in the mind of a Grammy-nominated composer? Join us as we sit down with Anna Clyne, whose journey into the world of music and composition unfolds in this captivating episode.
From receiving her first piano at age seven to her master’s studies that fueled her passion for composition, Anna’s path is a testament to the transformative power of music. Discover how her early exposure to diverse musical genres shaped her unique approach, and how integrating visual art into her compositions, notably in "Night Ferry" and her ongoing project "Palette," has pushed the boundaries of contemporary music.
Ever wondered how an unexpected technical glitch can inspire musical genius? Anna shares the allure of composing music by hand and the serendipitous moments that breathe life into her work.
Hear about the world premiere of "The Gorgeous Nothings" at the BBC Proms, an exquisite piece inspired by Emily Dickinson's poetry. Anna also opens up about "Within Her Arms," a moving tribute to a loved one, and offers a glimpse into her peaceful yet creatively charged life in the picturesque Hudson Valley.
As we delve deeper, Anna's reflections on personal beliefs, mindfulness, and the preciousness of life add profound layers to her artistic narrative. Her love for the banjo and the whimsical idea of composing a banjo concerto showcase the depth and breadth of her musical interests. This episode is filled with rich insights, from her experiences with Japanese calligraphy to lively debates over Marmite, painting a vivid portrait of an artist constantly in pursuit of creative expression. Don't miss this enriching conversation with Anna Clyne.
Hi, I'm your host, Thomas Sage Pedersen, and welcome to Speak for Change podcast, where we explore positive and lasting change in all areas of life. Described as a composer of uncommon gifts and unusual methods in a New York Times profile and a fearless and as fearless by NPR. Our next guest is Grammy-nominated composer Anna Klein. All right, Well, Anna Klein, welcome to Speak for Change podcast podcast. It's an honor to have you on it's great to be here, thank you yeah, no, it's, uh, it's an honor.
Speaker 1:I I officially, I think met you years ago in, um, I think 2012 or something, when you performed night Fury Fairy, night Fairy or Longside, I think it was the same show. I was, like Mason Bates, was on the docket at the Cabrillo Festival and I swear, when I heard that piece I was just blown away.
Speaker 1:So it's an honor to have you on, so I just wanted to kind of start off with you know. I know you get this question a lot, but what really got you into composition and music? Have you always been a musical person? Is this something that has just been your whole life, or is it something more non-traditional path?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've always loved music and I'm not from a musical family and there wasn't classical music in the household but there was a lot of folk music, pop music, jazz. So music that had a really strong melodic presence was around me growing up. And then, when I was seven, some friends of our family gave us a piano, very kindly, and had a few missing keys up at the top, but I would. I would teach myself avoiding those keys and write pieces also avoiding those keys. So, um, as soon as I started playing music, I also started writing music and it was, uh, usually for me to play with my friends. So my best friend at the time was a flutist, so I'd write little pieces for flute and piano. So that connection to who I'm writing for has actually stuck with me today. I've been writing a lot of concertos recently. So, yeah, that personal connection is really important to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so with learning piano, did you go to music school just directly? Is that something that stuck with you? I know you played cello. Is that correct as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a few years later I remember being in the kitchen with my mum and there was a letter that we were to give our parents and she opened up the envelope and she said Anna, the school is offering group cello lessons. Would you be interested? And I was like sure, that sounds like great fun. So I did start. I think I was nine I started taking cello lessons, but they were in groups as three or four of us with the teacher, with a very eccentric cello teacher who, if you did well, she'd throw a Mars bar at you and other objects if you weren't playing so well. But yeah, and I played in the school orchestra and so playing music has always been an important part of my life. And then I went to study music at Edinburgh University, but that was to do a very general music degree. So and it wasn't until I did my master's that I actually really focused on composition as the real main anchor of my work.
Speaker 1:I read somewhere that you were going to do a literature degree but you chose to go to music, or what was the story behind that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've always had a really wide range of interests. So in the UK you do your GCSE exams when you're 16 and your A-levels when you're 18. So those last two years of secondary school, high school, here you focus on three, maybe four subjects. But I was never. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. So, to play it safe, I studied English literature, geography, chemistry and music, and I actually applied to university to do English literature and at the very last minute switched to music. So I'm really grateful that I switched, but literature still is often a source of inspiration for my music. Now.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it seems that it's not just literature. I mean, with Night Ferry you have a whole painting in the front cover there, and how does that kind of multidisciplinary approach affect your work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, as you mentioned, in Night Ferry, that was a piece I wrote back in 2012. And it was a piece for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. It was my first time writing a large scale piece of music. I think prior to that, the longest piece I had written was a chamber work, was about 10 minutes, and the only orchestra piece of substance that I'd written was like seven minutes long so it's a big jump and, as you know, when you're writing music, one of the things we think a lot about is form and structure.
Speaker 2:So the way I approached this piece was well. First of all, the the idea was actually an image of a dark, turbulent wave. So I thought, well, what if I try and paint that and then translate that into music? So in my I put seven large panels of canvas next to each other and each canvas represented three minutes of music. So I painted the first three minutes, then translated that into music, and then took the music and translated that into visuals with painting gauze, fragments of poetry as well. So by the end of the creative process I had a 15 foot wide mural and a 22 minute composition. So I found that really hate, really helpful for the creative process, and I'm actually working on a piece at the moment that is re-incorporating painting into the, into the process, which I'm really enjoying so you still, you still do that process of kind of I don't know.
Speaker 1:Multidisciplinary, I think, is the only word I can think about, but with like painting and having it inform your music.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the piece I'm working on at the moment actually is called Palette and it's a concerto for augmented orchestra and it's in seven movements and for each of the seven movements I'm doing a large scale canvas that correlates to each one. The canvas is about 30 inches by 30 inches, so very large squares, and each movement explores a different color and how I associate that with music, and each movement spells out palettes. So the first movement is plum, then amber, then lava, ebony, teal, tangerine and emerald.
Speaker 2:So in each movement, exploring both painting and composing music, which is really fun.
Speaker 1:Oh my, so okay, that sounds amazing. And what is augmented orchestra? Can you explain that concept?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the augmented orchestra actually had its birth at the Cabrillo Festival last year in a piece for Ellen Premack called Wild Geese. And that's one of the many things I love about Cabrillo is the opportunity to try new things. And knowing that that's you know that's it can be a little nerve wracking as a composer to try something new, but to be in such a safe environment where we can do that has been incredible. So yeah, the first outing was wild geese and similar to that. We have um in palette. We have eight microphones within the orchestra and given a certain moment specified in the score, those microphones are opened and closed and certain live processes happen. So there's live electronic processing. Um, sometimes I think with the augmented orchestra it's helpful to say what it's not. So it's not amplifying the instruments, it's not looping, it's not pre-recorded, it's all live from the instruments. So some examples in palette are there are moments when we take the double basses and we pitch, shift them down an octave so it sounds like an organ or running a clarinet solo through a distortion pedal.
Speaker 2:So it sounds like an organ oh, wow, yeah, running a clarinet solo through a distortion pedal, so it sounds like an electric guitar and different things like this, and it's a collaboration with Jody Elf, sound designer, who I've worked with on many projects over the years and we're also married, so it's a sort of a family project too, which is really nice. So, yeah, so augmented orchestra started at the Cabrillo festival.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that sounds amazing, just definitely. Uh, the distortion pedal piece, like man, I'd love to see that and I love how, what I feel like when I talk to a lot of artists uh who who are married with other um collaborators and artists. I love how they always they always introduce it Like they, they tell them their name and they're like, oh yeah, he's also my husband. I love that. It's just really beautiful to see that autonomy. So, selfishly speaking, what as a composer, I'm wondering what activities do you, do you do or did you do to kind of strengthen your compositional skills?
Speaker 2:um. What activities did you say sort of like um?
Speaker 1:like practices, like did you have any kind of things you did to like help you become a better composer that you can think of?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. I think, like any trade, it's just the more time you invest, the more you get out of it. So you know, I wrote, like I mentioned, when I first started writing music. My best friend, Carla, played the flute when I was seven years old so I would write pieces for her.
Speaker 2:That playfulness and collaborating closely with musicians, I think is the best way to develop your toolkit as a composer to really learn the idiosyncrasies of the different instruments, starting with the solo instruments and gradually building them up into your writing for the orchestra. But you sort of need those tools before writing for the orchestra. So I'm really grateful that during my time at Edinburgh University Manhattan School of Music I had lots of friends that were excited about writing new music and I got to write for them.
Speaker 1:So you know it's really fun part of building that toolkit so it's almost like you you learn through collaboration with other musicians and artists. And is there anything a note that maybe surprised you when you've written for them like, oh wow, like I didn't know I could do that, or are there any stories you have to tell about that?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm not sure it's really that, but being, you know, being a cellist, I'm really comfortable writing for strings. So so, when it comes to winds and brass, I have to really remind myself to think about breathing. I actually it's up there, I have a recorder like a wooden disc I can't record. You know, we all learnt this at school, so I actually use that. I use midi when I'm composing and if.
Speaker 2:I have a flute line and I'm not sure if they have enough time. You know, enough time is the phrase too long to breathe?
Speaker 2:right I'll play the midi and I'll play along, you know, with that and and get a sense of the, the breathing. So that's something that I um try and keep in mind and and actually that started to inform my string writing because obviously, as a string player, you I mean you breathe, but you don't actually have to stop playing in order to take a breath. But I've started to integrate pauses into my string writing so that it feels so you do still feel the breath in the strings, which has been quite nice. It's opened up more space in my music.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. You said you use MIDI. I'm wondering what is your process around composing a piece regarding technology and actually writing by hand? Yeah, so I always start at the piano. I'm actually in my studio now, so I don't know if you can see writing technology and actually writing by hand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I always start at the piano. I'm actually in my studio now, so I don't know if you can see. I have a piano here and to my left I have a very large monitor. Yeah, it's probably about I don't know 30 inches tall.
Speaker 1:It's pretty big, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and it's really helpful because if I'm writing orchestral scores, I can see most of the staffs and I can zoom in. So I go between the piano and then I use finale notation software and I enter it in and I I use that as a compositional tool absolutely to hear the, the rhythm, the pacing of the music. But then I go backwards and forwards, but it always starts with pencil and paper at the piano.
Speaker 1:Man, I love that so much. I think there's something romantic about writing music by hand that I really that I really like you know. Um, I guess what I'm trying to think about is, I know, like when I compose, there are a lot of inspirations that come out that I have unexpected. So I'm wondering if there is there any unexpected inspirations that kind of pop into your mind when you're composing or when you're writing music.
Speaker 2:That's a great question. I'm just trying to think of some pieces. I'm just trying to think of some pieces. Well, you know, the augmented orchestra is really exciting because I'll be writing something that is very much in the acoustic sound world.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And then when I think of it in a new context, that might give me new ideas as to things that I might orchestrate differently. Actually, just last week I had the world premiere of a new piece called the Gorgeous Nothings at the BBC proms in London and it's a piece for since Wild Geese we then worked on the Gorgeous Nothings and that's for the Swingle Singers, which is seven amplified voices and orchestra. With the augmented orchestra the initial inspiration was actually the envelopes poems by Emily Dickinson, their little fragments of poetry on little scraps of paper that were published recently after her death, and so for that piece I'm just thinking because that's most fresh in my mind like the text was the initial inspiration and they're so evocative, like one of my favorite ones is clogged only with music, like the wheels of birds, which is so beautiful. Um, one of the fun things we had for the augmented orchestra in that movement was I had a bicycle wheel with a playing card in it.
Speaker 2:So you know, when you spin the wheel you get that sort of sound and that, uh, fluttered around the royal albert hall, which is, you know, around theater and so, and it evoked the sound of birds like fluttering. So that was really fun, so yeah. So then, having heard those sounds in the workshop, that inspired me to reimagine some of the musical material before the premiere. So, yeah, I love being open to finding and hearing new sounds, and technology can sometimes give you that, whether it be the augmented orchestra or even sometimes something glitches in the finale playback. I have a piece called rewind and um in the very early days of.
Speaker 2:I think I wrote that actually almost 20 years ago I had a really slow computer and I tried the playback and it froze for about 10 seconds and then then it started to play and I was like, oh, I like that actually. So that mistake then became like a 10 second drone. That now begins that piece. So sometimes technical glitches can also be a source of inspiration.
Speaker 1:Is there any other examples of technical glitches being a source of inspiration?
Speaker 2:I'm not so sure. Maybe I can think of being a source of angst and frustration, which is when I was 11 years old I had the first public performance of a piece of mine. It was at the Oxford Youth Prom and it was a collection of pieces for piano and flute with my friend Carla that I'd written and they had me on an electric piano because they had different, like little stages around the hall it's in.
Speaker 2:Oxford in England and I started playing and it started distorting around the hall and me being like 11 was just like just carry on. And I just carried on and I could hear people, all the commotion behind me and the whole piece. It was like distorting. It was very stressful, um, but in a way I guess that was my accidental introduction into electroacoustic composition. Now, now I actually choose to put the distortion on the clarinets in the orchestra and choose to have the the uh, technical alteration of the sound, oh my gosh, I love that so much.
Speaker 1:That being said, what is? Do you have a favorite piece of yours that you just kind of are, that just has like an emotional connection with? That you have emotional connection with?
Speaker 2:I do, and it's a piece that has a really beautiful connection to the Cabrillo Festival. It's a piece called Within Her Arms. It's for 15 individual string instruments and Marin played it up at the the mission. I think that you don't go there anymore but yeah, I remember it was beautiful and it was such a moving, particularly moving performance.
Speaker 2:I got a little teary when I heard it. Um. Similarly, christy has performed it with musicians at cabrillo, so I have really fond memories. And um, it's a piece for 15 strings and each of the musicians has their own individual parts. So it's 15 parts. So six violins, three violas, three celli and three basses, and it's just a ag f, sharp g, just this little motif that opens it.
Speaker 2:It becomes the kernel of the music for the whole piece and it's it's a very personal piece to me because I wrote it for my mother after she passed away. But it's also a piece that really connects with people. I think it's probably my most widely performed piece and sometimes I'll get messages from people who've just said that it's really touched them or they've lost someone and it reminded them of them. So it's really beautiful when you create something that touches people. And I actually have a recording coming out of that in a couple of weeks, actually on August 23rd, on a new album of music for strings called Shorthand, and that recording features the nights conducted by Eric Jacobson, which I'm really excited about.
Speaker 1:I will make sure to push that too. Thank you, that's everywhere. So what is your? I mean, I feel like every time I look into you, you have, you're just everywhere. I'm like, how is she here and there and this is being performed over here? I'm wondering what is your life like, like as a composer? What is your daily life like?
Speaker 2:My day life's pretty peaceful. I live in New Paltz, which is about 90 miles north of New York City. It's in the Hudson Valley and it's very beautiful. We're about five miles away from the center of town and, yeah, it's just a very beautiful world, very fertile, there's great farms, farms you get really good produce and um, I live here with my husband, jody, who's a audio engineer, and we have a little dog called penny, who is very adorable, and so when I'm at home it's very like domestic life, uh, very peaceful um. But then it's also that uh stark contrast with then also being on the road and being around many people when you're working with an orchestra, so, um. So I'm really glad to have a very peaceful home life.
Speaker 1:That um is a great place to rejuvenate in between the traveling I love being in nature when uh composing it's, it's such a magical thing definitely what um advice would you give up-and-coming composers who are, you know, starting off their career or, you know, just getting into the composition? What, what kind of? Do you have any words of wisdom for them?
Speaker 2:I don't know if I have words of wisdom, but, um, just based on my experience, kind of, what we were talking about earlier is building up that toolkit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Finding friends that are excited about new music and writing lots of pieces for solo instruments, for duets, quartets maybe, but especially for solo instruments, because that really pushes you to get to know the instruments and if you're a composer that's looking to write for orchestra, it's really essential that you are comfortable and confident with those individual instruments before you start putting them together. It makes that glue a little bit easier, I think. So, yeah, just seeking out fellow minded musicians that are excited about new music and write pieces together.
Speaker 1:So this is kind of a strange question. When it comes to modern contemporary music, what is your definition of contemporary music? And I just love to ask this of contemporary composers? Because when I speak to average people, just like everyday people, who I'm like, oh, I'm, you know, I you know I'm on the board of this festival of contemporary music and I'm always trying to explain to them what it is and it's just, it's been, it's just so difficult sometimes because there's just such a range, and so I'm wondering what your, if you have any insight on your definition of contemporary music.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I just think contemporary music is of the moment and it's written by our friends, our colleagues, on, you know, around the globe, and it really reflects you know, you know where we are in, in, uh, as humans, in this, this moment in time. And and um, contemporary means it's from any culture, from, uh, any corner of the world. So I think that's really exciting, and just to know that people are being creative all around the world gives us a little glimpse of hope in these very strange times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very strange, uh, and do you have any? Like I know, I asked about inspiration. Do you have any other composers that inspire you to compose?
Speaker 2:greats from the past. I mentioned that I started playing cello when I was young and I have a real connection to Bach, particularly through playing the Bach suites, and there's just something so pure about his music. Every note is meant to be there. There's no superfluous fluff, it's just so perfect.
Speaker 1:So it's a great.
Speaker 2:I think it's always a great reference, even if we're doing something that's very contemporary, maybe even more more thorny, but something that has its roots in really solid counterpoint is something that I that I find interesting. Um, I love, like caroline shaw, paola prestini, carolina sad, other women composers who are my both my good friends and whose music I adore, and actually Cabrillo Festival is where it's been my introduction to a lot of friends and new composers. So, yeah, I'm really grateful to have been there several times and to have been introduced to a real range of music.
Speaker 1:I love that. All right. So here's our little question round here. Do you have any quotes that you live by or think of often?
Speaker 2:Oh, quotes, not really. I used to have like, like some, thich Nhat Hanh, but another thing that really speak, you know, or some like Buddhist reflections, to just being my being mindful, being present and yeah, um to know that. You know the lifespan is is finite, so really to make the most of it so you've just embodied it.
Speaker 1:You've embodied all the quotes. This is a uh, what is something you believe that other people think is crazy?
Speaker 2:Something that I think other people think is crazy.
Speaker 1:Or something you believe that other people think is crazy.
Speaker 2:Oh, something that I think other people think is crazy Marmite. I think it's the most delicious thing, but a lot of people here think I'm crazy for that. But in terms of other things, no, nothing really springs to mind.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. That's a good one.
Speaker 2:Have you tried Marmite?
Speaker 1:Yes, I have.
Speaker 2:What's your take on Marmite?
Speaker 1:I love it, but can you get it here?
Speaker 2:You can Thank goodness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah't. I wouldn't have expected to like it. I guess that's kind of the the trip. It's like. You know, I'm like I don't think I would like this, but then I ended up really liking it. I got, I had it in New Zealand. That's when, when you feel overwhelmed or unfocused, what do you do?
Speaker 2:I take a walk, do something different. I live fairly close to New York City so I'll often go to a museum or gallery. I have annual memberships with the Whitney and MoMA and the Guggenheim actually, so I go to them pretty often. So I find that really clears my mind and it, um, gives me ideas too. I'm very visual, so sometimes it will give me an idea. Sometimes I like just to put music on and walk around a gallery and just soak it up. But yeah, to start, I think that's an important part of the creative process. We've all been there where we feel overwhelmed or you have writer's block and it's just a moment to step back and just take a pause and come back with fresh ears and fresh eyes.
Speaker 1:Love that. If you had to gift only one book to somebody, what book would that be?
Speaker 2:Oh, one book, what would that be? I have a wonderful book of poetry, translated by Robert Bly which I love. So that's nice because it's such a collection of different poetry and we're always so busy that sometimes it just takes one beautiful poem to take us out of our heads. So probably that I think it's called the Winged Delight.
Speaker 1:What is something people often get wrong about you, oh what people often get wrong about you.
Speaker 2:Oh, I wouldn't get wrong about me. Um, I don't know. You'd have to ask other people. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know, and then um if you could put anything on a billboard, what would it say?
Speaker 2:Live life to the fullest.
Speaker 1:I love that. All right. So here are the two silly questions what is your astrology sign and do you resonate with it?
Speaker 2:Pisces. I'm a Pisces, I think, so I don't know too much about astrology, but yeah, so I don't know what the characteristics are, but I associate with water. I love being by the water. That's my place to really feel calm. I love the sound of the lapping waves and the feeling of my feet on the sand is one of my favorite things beautiful.
Speaker 1:And then, if you had a power animal, what would it be? Power animal just does that mean?
Speaker 2:like if I embodied an animal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's great. What would I be? Probably one of those like ones that can like camouflage their surrounding and just be an observer. What animals do that? I guess iguanas do. They do that.
Speaker 1:Iguanas, don't I think. What's that chameleon?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, chameleon, there you go, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's a chameleon. You just like morph on all the walls, just disappear. It's like not disappearing, it's like camouflaging right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Technically, it's not disappearing. Okay, so this is your time to you know. Where can people find you? What are you doing? Anything you really want to say to our audience about anything? It's like you can market things Whatever you want. It's all you.
Speaker 2:Oh sure. Well, my name's Anna. I'm from England and I've lived half my life in America now and I've been really embraced by this country, and especially by cabrillo. I first started going there in 2010, so that feels like my, my home away from home. And, um, I'm really grateful to be a part of a global community for contemporary music and I love collaborating with artists from other fields, be they filmmakers or choreographers, and I have a website, annakleincom, that has some of my music and videos on it, so you can hear some there. And I try and stay up to date on social media to share where I am and what I'm doing and what things are inspiring me. And yeah, at the moment I'm really interested in music and art. I love painting. During the pandemic, I took Japanese calligraphy classes. I also took online banjo lessons and fiddle lessons, and I'm always wanting to learn new things and to meet people that inspire me, so I'm really grateful to have a life in the arts.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty curious now about the banjo lessons. How did that go?
Speaker 2:Oh, it was great. Yeah, I reached out to a friend of mine who put me in touch with Bruce Molsky, who's a phenomenal folk musician who lives in Beacon, which is not too far from where I live. So during the pandemic we took Zoom banjo lessons and he learned me quite a few tunes, but at a certain point I had to stop because they all started to feel I couldn't remember one from the other. But it was wonderful and I would sit out, probably to the annoyance of my neighbors. I would sit out on the deck and play my folk tunes, my old time folk tunes, claw hammer style, and I love it. It's such a resonant instrument and you don't have, I mean, you can just twang a few strings and kind of feel like you're in the spirit of it. So yeah, I love the banjo.
Speaker 1:Are we going to hear a banjo composition from you soon? I would love that I love the idea of writing a banjo concerto. Watch this space Amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, Anna, it's been awesome to have you on here. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast my pleasure. Thank you for having me.