Speak For Change With Thomas Sage Pedersen
Welcome to Speak for Change with Thomas Sage Pedersen! Our mission is to inspire and promote positive and lasting change in our local & global communities.
Speak For Change With Thomas Sage Pedersen
Ep.147 Resilience and Harmony: Composer Iván Enrique Rodríguez on Activism, Empathy and Orchestral Music
https://www.ivanrodriguezmusic.com/
What if classical music has always been a subtle yet powerful form of activism? Join us as we explore this fascinating idea with our special guest, Iván Enrique Rodríguez, a talented composer, mental health advocate, and activist from Puerto Rico.
Iván shares his incredible journey, starting from the challenges of navigating a colonized education system and cultural identity in Puerto Rico to making his mark in the classical music world in the United States. Listen as he reflects on the resilience required to thrive as a person of color in predominantly white spaces and the continuous struggle for representation and recognition in the arts.
Iván's story is one of triumph over adversity. Raised in a strict Pentecostal family while discovering his identity as a gay man, Iván faced profound challenges, including family rejection and homelessness. Despite these obstacles, his passion for music never wavered.
A life-changing encounter with Mahler's Third Symphony ignited his commitment to composition, leading to a prolific portfolio and formal studies in music composition. Iván gives us an intimate look into his creative process, from his preferred composition software to the transformative moments that have defined his career.
The episode also delves into the diverse influences that shape Iván's music, from Puerto Rican folk traditions to modern genres. We discuss the critical role of empathy in the arts and the importance of genuine outreach by orchestras to black and brown communities.
Iván's latest work, "Casting the Dice," commissioned by the Cabrillo Festival, tackles themes of immigration and asylum seeking, drawing from real-life stories to create a powerful narrative. Tune in for an inspiring conversation that highlights music's ability to foster empathy, drive social change, and transform lives.
Transform the orchestral experience for artists & audiences by building a vibrant community &more
Ignite Nexus
Consulting, life & executive coaching for organizations & individuals. Start the journey today!
Everyone's Music School
Creating positive and lasting change in people's lives with music!
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Hi, I'm your host, thomas Sage Pedersen, and welcome to Speak for Change podcast, where we explore positive and lasting change in all areas of life life. Our next guest is composer, mental health advocate and activist, yvonne enrique rodriguez. All right, yvonne, welcome to speak for change.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, I'm I'm honored, honestly, you know I it's, it's quite, quite an experience and knowing the, the, the little I've met you, here in the festival. Being able to talk to you is actually very exciting no, this is I'm, I'm, I'm ready, no, I'm stoked.
Speaker 1:Even just the brief interactions we've had, I'm already inspired, and just hearing some of your compositions, I'm like man, this guy's the real deal. Oh God, no, you know, no, seriously, it's. You know, you know, and I guess, just to jump right in, you know, you do have a theme of like activism in your art, and not every artist does that, and I think that's kind of, I think that's strange, because I feel like the arts and activism have, like this, like special relationship, right, and so I'm wondering why you bring, bring activism in your art and just like how that has come forth and the benefits of that you know, uh, more so in classical music activism.
Speaker 2:Classical music tends to have a a relationship with political subjects in a very subtle way, you know.
Speaker 2:We see in history the culture critiques that Mozart did in his operas. We see the commentary that Beethoven might've made with his symphonies, particularly the Eroica. We see Shostakovich symphonies that you know we tend to interpret them as going against the regimes and you know whatever was happening with Stalinism and all of that. But classical music tends to keep itself subdued because of its relationship to power and money. In my case, you know, I come from Puerto Rico and Puerto Rico is a US territory since the 1800s and our relationship with the US has been interesting, to say the least.
Speaker 1:Please elaborate.
Speaker 2:It has been interesting, to say the least. Please elaborate. It has been interesting and um.
Speaker 2:The thing that really moved me into taking this activism approach was is understanding the history of my island, my people, in relationship to the United States, and education Meaning that because we're a territory of the United States, the education in the island tends to be very colonized.
Speaker 2:So that means that the white savior from the United States is the one that will come and fix everything in the island and make everything better.
Speaker 2:We used to dream of going to Disney World and whatever we found in the next door Walmart would be this thing that we would never be able to find in the island, etc. And when I came to the United States in 2014, and then in 2016-17, started my master's at Juilliard, I noticed that I was as or not, if not better prepared than my colleagues in school and also talking to people relating to people seeing the history of the United States and the people's knowledge about it, of the United States and the people's knowledge about it. You know, the first thing that I was asked when I started my master's is if I had a green card or what was the currency that we used in the island. So you know, those sort of experiences sort of shaped the defense of who I was Going back to. You know, we couldn't use our flag until I think it was either I might be wrong, but maybe the 50s- or something.
Speaker 2:You know it was illegal very recent. It was illegal very recent. So we weren't allowed to be nationalists, we weren't allowed to defend our identity photos in uh of of places in the 40s in alabama that have signs that say no asians, no negros, no dogs, no puerto ricans in different places. And when you see that and then you come into the mainland and that history has been revised and you walk down the streets of New York and someone throws at you a beer bottle.
Speaker 2:And while you're talking on the phone with someone back in Puerto Rico in Spanish and they tell you speak in Spanish, we're in America, you know. Then you start questioning whether you're wanted here, even when you hold the same passport, yeah, even when you have a huge community of Puerto Ricans in New York. And when you are in the island and they, you know, we have that education of, oh, you need arts, follow the history of Copeland, of Barber, of Gershwin Bernstein, oh, I can be like them. And then you come into the mainland and there's absolutely no one like you in the programming or in the orchestra. Then you have two roads that you can take either you give up or you fight for your place yeah, and particularly in the art and in music.
Speaker 2:We have such a rich culture in puerto rico such that I was like, okay, then I'm just gonna incorporate all of that and I'm gonna fight for my place I mean, what a, what a statement right, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean, I relate to that right, I'm always in spaces that I'm either the only brown person or the only you know black biracial person, definitely, and in positions where you know, historically has always been white, you know, and it's a lot of firsts right, like first black person to do that first black person to do that, and I think that's so interesting.
Speaker 1:We're in 2024 and that's what's happened. It's like such a slow process and you know within you know black and brown is never a monolith right, so there's so much diversity within communities. But it's interesting how, how, when I speak to a lot of folks in these spaces, how like close their, their view is of you, right, you're like, okay, you're black, so this is kind of what you go. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like you're this and, and I've been anything but conventional, you know what I mean and I think you same, same with you, right I?
Speaker 2:mean it happens to me all the time. Whenever I present some of my music anywhere, people with the and I and I must be clear. Yeah, I don't take offense to this because my culture. I am very proud of my culture yeah and I, I carry it in my blood and it's it permeates my music amen, yeah but whenever I present something, there is this well-intended, usually elderly person that comes to me and say hey, I didn't listen to salsa in it.
Speaker 1:I mean there is a pressure, right, I think, as black and brown and composers, to put our culture quote unquote into the music. Yeah, right, and I think that's what a lot of people look for and a lot of people listen to. Definitely, if you're coming into this space, you're kind of like this ambassador of sorts for your culture, right. And then what happens if you just create something that's completely different?
Speaker 1:than they're expecting right, and I think that's what comes out Right, as people are like, whoa, I didn't hear any, you know, from me I don't even want to say what I'm like. I'm like, yeah, I don't want to go there. But you know, there is this element of, for instance, have you ever dealt with that? Have you ever composed a piece where, like you know, you were saying where it's completely, maybe there's cultural elements, but it's hidden, or I mean, there's something like that and people expect you to do this?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely All the time.
Speaker 2:On Saturday there is a full section after the first climax that all that the percussion is doing is cascara rhythms from salsa, yeah, but you don't really notice it, right? Because the ambience, the harmony, the counterpoint that I'm using preps you or primes you to not expect that. So when you hear the rhythm, you think it's just another motor inside of the musical movement. But I have a Puerto Rican friend that is also a conductor auditor in the festival and automatically he came to me and said we need to explain this, white people how to do it on Cascada.
Speaker 1:We need to explain this white people how to do it.
Speaker 2:You need to feel that first. You need to feel it.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:There are moments when I incorporated very philosophical, like the viola piece that you heard. Everything was based on the Puerto Rican anthem. When you hear the Puerto Rican anthem and then you hear that piece, you start grabbing all the chunks of the of the anthem there.
Speaker 2:But there's also uh pieces, for example, like my second symphony that is based, predicated, on the musical elements of Bomba, Puerto Rican, bomba. But you, if you are searching for you know that type of music, you won't find it, it's just in it, in the craftsmanship. But I also have other pieces, like for I have a christmas piece titled christmas realness extravaganza oh my gosh, I need to hear this piece, then I take the oh Holy Night, yeah, and I blow it up in Mambo.
Speaker 2:You know, I do it every way I can, not necessarily because I want to represent and yes, I want to, yes but it's also because it's in my veins. You know, I grew up listening to all of that music. So, whenever I close my eyes to grasp that platonic, nebulous inspiration, those are the elements that are most ready to me All right, so I'm going to transition a little bit.
Speaker 1:How did you get into composition? All right, so I'm going to transition a little bit. How did you get into composition? What made you go down this path? Because it's not a path that everyone goes down.
Speaker 2:No, and it was a total accident.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love those as it goes, you know.
Speaker 2:But I come from a very complicated upbringing with my family. I am gay and my family is Pentecostal oh God, so Sorry. Very complicated, complicated, and during that upbringing me trying to hide that aspect, my mother gets a virus on her spinal cord and she ends up being in a wheelchair. And my family? To try and distract me and my sister, so that we didn't focus on the quote-unquote tragedy, they put us into music school. So I started studying saxophone first, oh okay. And then after that, at this point, I want to be a scientist, I want to be a scientist, and then that transitioned into culinary arts, which there is some sort of correlation with music.
Speaker 2:for whatever reason, you talk to many composers and performers and they have something about cooking in there. That's weird.
Speaker 2:But, first I started playing saxophone. Then I loved music so much, still as a hobby, I started playing violin and then piano. And then I got obsessed and started taking lessons of clarinet, oboe, bassoon, singing lessons, harp, you know french horn. I took everything. Uh, still as a hobby, yeah, still as a hobby. Uh. And then you know violin. It's a very technical instrument that requires a lot of exercises, that you need to do a lot of practice, which I abhorred. It was the worst thing ever. So in order to make those exercises bearable, I started writing piano accompaniments to them, you know, and little did. I know I was composing, yeah, but you know, I talked to friends, pianist friends like hey, could you just play this with me so I can practice in a more entertaining way? Yeah, amen, and that was sort of composing.
Speaker 2:Still, I was transitioning into being a professional violinist so I applied to the conservatory in puerto rico to do my undergrad in violin performance okay, hold on.
Speaker 1:Where did that transition come from the culinary arts science to music?
Speaker 2:I, as I mentioned, I'm taking all these instruments yeah I am, uh, being completely, completely enthralled by all this, you know, finding new repertoire. I am at that point where I just can't imagine my any day of my life without music. And I have this teacher that tells me in puerto rico hey, we're doing in the national symphony orchestra, we're doing mahler third symphony yeah why don't you come?
Speaker 2:and I was like who's that mall, mall or I don't know it's gonna go. And that changed my life, oh you know. And so that was like I hate. I hate going back to the, you know, late romantic German repertoire, because that's part of the issue that we have in classical music. But, man, oh, that changed my life. And when that happened and I see the orchestra performing that enormous you know 30 minute finale, that gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And when you think it can't go any bigger, it gets even bigger I said, you know, I think I want to do this for the rest of my life. It has to be this, you know, I want to play that, yeah, you know. And then I went, you know, in the.
Speaker 2:I tried to volunteer whenever they needed extras and stuff in the orchestra and that way I got to play Francesca Tchaikovsky's Francesca the Rimini, I got to play Verdi's Requiem, which I played as a second violin, and I also sang as a bass in the choir. So, you know, I got so into it that I thought, you know, I, I, this is my thing, you know, this is my thing, you know. And I applied for the conservatory, performing, you know, like violin performance for my undergrad. As I mentioned earlier, I abhorred practicing, so it hadn't clicked yet. Practicing wasn't my thing, you know, but I still tried to pursue it, I, it hadn't clicked yet. Yes, that practicing wasn't my thing.
Speaker 2:Right. Right, but I still tried to pursue it, but that aligned with my family finding out that I was gay and all that issue. So I was kicked out. Oh man, I was basically homeless for a large period of time. Thank God, by that time I already knew my husband.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Even though we were disconnected because they took everything from me. Yeah, he found me and I ended up living with him ever since. So we've been together for 16 years. But I mentioned this event because I couldn't attend the conservatory during that period of time. So they put me in probation and they kicked me out for a semester and I was like now I need to go back to culinary school the idea of culinary school, because I can no longer pursue music. I fell into this huge depression, but during that time, while I tried to figure out whatever I could do, I was just writing music and I wrote like a four-part fugue. I wrote a Puerto Rican danza, I wrote a violin sonata and a piano concerto.
Speaker 2:And when I Just those things, but it was just, you know it was. Mind you, I'm still kind of like late teen, early 20s. So, it's kind of like still not very good music, but it's I'm writing something. And when I looked at that portfolio I was I realized oh, I have enough music to apply for composition. And that's how it all started, you know. Then I applied again to the conservatory for composition and we're here now.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness. So, as a composer, do you have a specific process you use? I mean, I'm just nerding out now because I just want to know selfishly, Absolutely, what is your process Like? What? I mean this is like probably two in the weeds, but like, what program do you use?
Speaker 2:You know, I think, like you know, people okay, Musicians and composers that are listening to this are going to hate me. I'm a finale.
Speaker 1:You're a finale.
Speaker 2:I, you, you know, I only use Finale because I haven't used anything else. Yeah, and I don't want any other learning curve, totally. No, you use what you got, I use Finale and you know it works, for me it works, but my process is kind of bizarre. Great, I'm a mental health advocate and I, you know I I'm a mental health advocate. Yeah, and I, you know, I myself a mental health patient. I suffer from ptsd, uh, treatment of resistant depression, anxiety and ocd.
Speaker 2:So my ocd usually takes control of my life? Yes, but it doesn't. In composing so composing. It's kind of a free-for-all, uh. Uh, what's the the improvisation oriented kind of process? Yeah, like expression pure expression. So I sit down and I improvise on the piano often, or or I just go directly to paper.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I just let the thing that happened, that could happen, happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And once I have enough material, I either clean it a little bit or edit a little bit or just keep on using it to then develop it further. But I never have a strict plan or a sketch. I don't know how people can sketch.
Speaker 1:I just I cannot.
Speaker 2:It's arcane for me. I just could never do that. Yes, I just sit down and go. It's very strange because I don't want to sound metaphysical or romantic about this that some people in the 1800s would say that they are being dictated in their ear or whatever they're writing. But it sort of feels like that because I never plan ahead anything. Whenever I have that piece that is getting performed on Saturday, it starts with this humongous kind of like fifth chord.
Speaker 1:Yeah scored.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, once I spent weeks trying to figure out what, what was I going to do? Yeah, in the opening, once I landed on that sound, everything else worked. You know, they just got birthed.
Speaker 1:I mean I love that, I love, love the act of creation, I love how you know you can take, I think, that focus right when you get in that kind of focus mode. I love that mode where you're just composing, you're creating and you have the flow right. Everyone who's listened to this podcast knows that and I'm wondering have you seen I mean this may be an obvious question, but have you seen benefits of composing to your mental health?
Speaker 2:It's absolutely my, I must say, without an inch of exaggeration, it saved my life. Yeah, number one and number two. It's my biggest, biggest outlet. It's my biggest outlet. Uh, whenever I feel overwhelmed to the point that I need to scream something and my mind has encoded as intentional and with a clear message, but my mouth and my vocal cords can't, yeah, uh, verbalize it or bringing into existence in a clear way, I go to music and I just sit down and write and it's, it sounds incredibly romantic and incredibly, uh, you know, woo-woo artist kind of thing, but it's, it's.
Speaker 2:It's the same thing as someone going to the gym and just discharging everything in the gym or going for a run. You know it's my way of just focusing or unfocusing. You know, whatever I need in the moment, I just sit down and let myself go, and it's so hard to explain. But once you create or you find a sound world that you want to navigate, you just keep on creating it. You know it's like for those who are authors, it's like that process of writing a novel. There are two approaches that people use.
Speaker 2:Either you plan ahead the pillars of your novel and then you work yourself through those, or you let your characters dictate wherever they're going.
Speaker 1:Exactly so it's basically, that, are you the character? Are you, are you dictating the character? Which? Which approach do you use? My approach?
Speaker 2:is that whenever I find that sound world and that main motif. Yeah, that's the character they dictate where they're going.
Speaker 1:That's uh, stephen king wrote about that in um on writing, yeah, I, I thought that was really interesting because how I wrote and I learned this from composition, actually it was like the pillared, structured approach, right. So that's kind of how I did. I knew where I was ending, yeah, and then I would find like clever ways to go to where I was ending, right, and like expressive things. But when I read that book, he was, he totally just like was so blunt he was, you know, he said I think he was like I don't know how people do this like it just kills the imagination and all this stuff and I was like man, is that true?
Speaker 1:and I also write. So I was. I was like I'm gonna experiment with this new way and oh my gosh. I love the fact that you know there's this vulnerability for me, because I think that when I start something, I'm really good at starting things, but finishing them is like the really difficult part for me. And so when I started experimenting with this, I had to have like clear. I'm like I have to finish. Like I did short things, like you know, with writing and music, or I did like very short things so I could. I know I can end it, yeah, and I can practice yeah. And I did a character driven and totally surprised me. All the endings, all the things were just completely just. The thing that emerged within me was completely foreign. It did feel like there was something talking to you or something channeling you, but it's crazy how that works. I'm just so blessed about that, but I'm so glad you brought that up.
Speaker 2:It totally makes sense I mean it's almost magical, because I mean I don't want to make this very woo-woo and you know, kind of like, you know metaphysical in the world of shapes, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:No, it's an exercise on empathy. When you're doing that kind of thing, whether it is through music or writing or anything, it's just an exercise on empathy. You created a character and then, even though the character is imaginary or created, you're putting yourself in their shoes. So you're exercising that empathy of what would that person be doing, what are their decisions and what are their consequences. And it's just that it's like when someone tells you, imagine you were doing, what would you do in this position? And you can sort of abstract that hypothesis and say, well, okay, if I were in this situation, I would do X or Y. It's exactly the same thing. But when you let that unfold even further, then you keep on creating a life of its own, a history of its own and in case of music, that musical narrative that goes somewhere.
Speaker 1:I think that's really beautiful. It's like a practice in empathy. I love that because I've heard I had a journalist on here who said almost the exact same thing about acting and about writing, where she has to get into the mind of her you know who she's interviewing and then when she's home writing she has to like really embody that person so that she can write accurately and kind of nuance and hit those kind of hidden gems of like that person and then acting. It was like you had to literally embody another character. So it makes a complete sense and I think the arts is a really good. One of the numerous benefits of the arts is empathy, like empathy cultivation. There's not many things in our world that are fun, that can train empathy, correct, you know, and I think music, like you're saying, is one of those things. I mean people, people people, people Think.
Speaker 2:Saying is one of those things. I mean people, people, people, people Think about when you were in high school and how many times you felt absolutely and utterly connected to that single or that song or that record. That sort of spoke to your life. Yeah, it's that. It's just that, you know, it's kind of like that thing that speaks to you.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because it resonates with you or you can imagine that narrative and empathize with whatever that singer music story novel is telling. Yeah, that singer music story novel is telling. Yeah, you know, it's the thing with classical music is that it's so stuffy and people are like so, oh you know, put on a suit and shut up and don't clap you know, that people forget that it's just the same thing.
Speaker 2:It's just the same thing. You're just looking at it through different instruments just to create a different color, a different experience, and just to have this sonic kind of live experience. But it's just, it's the same thing, the same thing.
Speaker 1:And, transitioning from that, what are your influences and what do you listen to? Oh, my God, just for fun, fun, you know. And then also like, what are your influences? Like, yes, compositionally, but like what are some like unusual influences, even to you that you're like wow, I, I guess I'm gonna do that, you know you know, I adore this question because I'm a millennial and I grew up in the 90s pre and then post internet.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know so exactly I have, as I mentioned earlier, I have all my puerto rican folk background that I grew up with yeah but once napster explode lime wire, lime wire you know, once all that opened up and you could have access to everything around the globe, that was so bad that, yeah, once that happened and you just had, you know, uh, god knows, kazakhstan music or or just with a click, yeah, all of that mashed up together. So if I were to explain my main influences, obviously growing up in the 90s, early odds, it's that folk music, whatever weird things I can find downloading on the internet, and video game music, because you know I grew up playing. You know RPGs and the music from RPGs are great. It's just getting better. Yeah, so you know that just got injected into my influences and people forget that in the 80s, 90s, looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry they were using very good music in their background all the time, so I was always listening to all of that.
Speaker 2:I got completely enthralled by fantasia fantasia the first one uh, and, and I started getting this taste for classical music yeah that I just didn't know what it was, but I just loved it yeah uh, at the same time listening to j-pop and j-rock and pop, pop punk, you know all of those things uh, so it's just a mixture of that drama that uh hook that drama?
Speaker 1:yeah, I'm hooked to drama music.
Speaker 2:I think I mean, it's this, it. What else are you listening to? Yeah, what else are you listening for? Yeah, you know, usually classical music. One of the uh, I would say uh, the the good things for the people that like it, but the bad things for the people who are just getting into it is how long pieces can be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:If you just change the approach and the perspective and think of it as a narrative, as a dramatic arch, then you need that length and then it becomes kind of like oh, of course we're going this direction and we're landing there, so we need that prep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have to, yeah, it's, you're telling a story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's great. So I kind of I'm just like ridiculous, I'm just a curious person, you know. So give me one pop punk example like one artist and then one classical influence that you got.
Speaker 2:My classical influence. Obviously, you know I hate it, I hate to admit it, you know, but Gustav Mahler.
Speaker 1:Richard.
Speaker 2:Strauss, sergei Rachmaninoff Shostakovich and early Schoenberg, oh, early schoenberg, you know early schoenberg, all the, you know the lush exaggerated dramatic romantics that those are my people, my man. I grew up listening to my chemical romance I saw that, I saw them live.
Speaker 1:I hate you and they were like they played with, I think, linkin Park and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:I was in Puerto Rico at that time. That was too far away.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying if you were here in the best country in the world? I'm just kidding no, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I grew up listening to, to, uh, my chemical romance. I now I'm kind of like into um, oh my god, this, uh, they are. I don't. They are not icic, they're from, well, of course, nordic, it'll come to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and this UK UK band that just blew up Sleep Token. Oh, okay, I'm like into kind of getting into all of that and all of those things sort of blend in and kind of like in the influence of it all because, again, their approach of drama and the approach of storytelling yeah, and using dynamics. Like.
Speaker 1:My Chemical Romance is like ooh so heart, it gets in there, right, it gets in there in both ways lyrically and musically.
Speaker 2:Musically, yeah, you know, and they are not afraid to use a cliche in a way that works. You know people forget that cliches exist because they work. Yeah, you know it's just overusing them and using them distastefully that it's kind of becomes kind of blah. Yeah, but when, when something works, just just let it work. Just let it work and they use it in a way that you're kind of like that was what we needed there and that happened there in that moment, and that's perfect, just leave it there and I it. It just works.
Speaker 1:It just works. It just works. You know, oh my gosh, I love that influence um so quickly here. Kid you what is casting the dice all about. So this new piece is premiering. Oh, it's a world premiere premiere, yeah, commissioned by the yeah, yeah, on saturday, right, and so what? What is it? What? What? What should people be listening for? How can people prepare for that? Or you know if I get this out by then, but, like you know, how can people like what is it?
Speaker 2:So, you know, it's sort of like a dramatic scene of a piece for narrator and orchestra. The idea of the piece when Cabrillo Festival commissioned it to me, they wanted it to be focused on immigration, asylum seeking and refugees. And being from Puerto Rico, even though I am a US citizen, I consider myself an immigrant because the culture in Puerto Rico is dramatically, drastically different from the US. When I moved to Florida I was very different, but when I moved to New York I was in a different planet, you know. Yeah, so I sort of empathize with that experience of moving from one place to another and having a house, but not necessarily a home.
Speaker 2:Right to another and having a house, but not necessarily a home right, um. But in regards to asylum seeking and refugees, I thought, you know, I because the piece they asked for it to be with narrator I thought why, in purely millennial fashion, why don't I put an ad on facebook, instagram and and Twitter? No X for all those people that went through that experience just to throw their stories at me and just take all of that and create the narrator's script. And when I got all that, you know, I was flooded with experiences when I got all that information and created the text and I based the music on the text. So the music are sort of episodes, connected episodes with developed musical motifs that are shared through all of the episodes, but there are episodes of the experience of the narrator, which is a combined experience of all these people saying well, you know I'm going to tell you this story, but it's always odd for me to tell it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I've told it so many times and people always react as if it were new, as if it were something that has never happened before, when we were constantly experiencing this.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And then they go through the experience of. You know, I've wished something. I've been experiencing this in a place that was full of promise and beauty.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And now I only see, like one of the people wrote to me, rainfall of gunshots. So, yeah, I just needed to get out of here because of my family, because of my daughter. You know, I experienced seeing my parents being murdered, people getting in my house, you know, and one of the, a lady from Uruguay, told me, you know, nobody wants to leave their house, nobody wants to get away from the only place they've known, carrying only doubts and fear. Nobody wants to leave, but I had to, for me, for my daughter, you know. So it's that arch of starting with this kind of like. Okay, I guess I'm telling you this story again, yeah, I'm telling you this story again, yeah, and telling the struggles that we went through and then going down to arriving at what they called a promised land, quote, unquote. But the music around that, those two words in the piece, it's sort of strained and and accurate.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Because what promised land and what's the promise and what's the promise. And then they're getting somewhere, starting to assimilate. But then, as another person from Iran told me, I guess it has to be because of their main language the way he expressed it was the. What were his words? The legacy of this place started to show this face. You know what a brilliant way of wording that. I just had to take exactly that and put it in the piece. Damn, and it's, it's. And then it closes up with you know them saying you know, we are just exactly like you. We are exactly like you. We are the uber drivers, the barbers, the bartenders, the restaurateurs, the lawyers, the doctors, the EMTs, the ambulance drivers we are all that people exactly like you. I think this was the same lady from Uruguay, or was someone from El Salvador, that told me you know, your choice can change fate itself. And sometimes I wonder should I dare to hope again? You know, and that's how the piece closes.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. I can't wait to see it. I'm like really excited. All right, so we're gonna move on to this question around thing we have on the podcast. Your first question is do you have any quotes that you live by or think of often?
Speaker 2:oh, my god, so many, uh, so many. But oh, I do have one that I wrote down, uh, because I wanted to use it in one of my pre-concert talks, kind of thing yeah and I was like oh I, I I'm always uh citing this quote, uh, but I don't want to forget, so I'm totally, yeah, yeah uh, it is attributed to arthur miller, but uh, it's, we don't know if it's, if he really said said it that it's. I think the job of the artist is to remind people what they have chosen to forget.
Speaker 1:Oh my man, that's a good quote. Oh man, what is something you believe that other people think is crazy?
Speaker 2:I think it's becoming less crazy now. But have you seen the size of the universe? There has to be life out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. I'm like we're too small, it's too big. If we just can't even go across the thing, how can there not be? It's insane.
Speaker 2:It's just so humongous that there has to be life somewhere. And also I want to cling to science, even though this will sound woo-woo and bizarre. But matter can't be destroyed. It can only transform same with energy. I don't believe in reincarnation, I am not religious, but ceasing to exist as electrical beings that we are seems sort of bizarre. This might be the human hubris of oh my God, we have a conscious so this can'tar society or whatever.
Speaker 1:Go back to the universe, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's something. It's just like it's existing as a conscious being, and just cutting that off at 80 is, it seems, so it doesn't.
Speaker 1:It doesn't make logical sense, like when you look at nature right, you know when you look at nature, things die and live at the same time, like a dead tree, a fern growing out of it. I mean just a very mundane example and just think about the theory of the multiverse.
Speaker 2:You think the quantum theory of the multiverse. What if you die but that consciousness just moves to the other? You that didn't in that other universe and it just keeps going, you just keep going. No one has ever come back to tell you.
Speaker 1:Or maybe they have and we just haven't listened. We can find them in the mental institutions, being like gosh, I just got back, what the hell? More to come. What is something people often get wrong about you?
Speaker 2:My looks, I think because you, you know I'm super bubbly, yeah, and I'm always laughing. But when you look at me, you know I have sort of like a mohawk and I'm fully tatted up. My neck is full of tattoos, my arms are full of tattoos. So people look at me and they think I'm like this super party goer. Yeah, kind of crazy. Yeah, drunk and I'm I barely drink alcohol, I don't smoke and I go to bed at 9, 30, 10 pm. I love that. I'm like super straightish, you know, kind of like. I've been married for 16 years, I have a geriatric cat. Yeah, you know my life. My life is very squared and very clean and very organized. But you look at me and you might cross the streets because you think that I'm too punkish looking. Oh, my gosh that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Um okay, what does positive change in yourself and the world look like to you?
Speaker 2:oh my god, more again. More empathy, more empathy. And this, oh my god, I don't. I don't want to curse, but this, this bizarre anti, anti intellectualismism that we have been developing in this new era. You know we oh my God, we don't. We have a trust-based society. You, as an individual, you can learn everything and anything you want to understand, but we only have 24 hours in a day and we only get around 80 years of life, so you don't have enough time to learn everything. So you trust that others that learn will impart that information to you in a correct manner. That system of trust has been broken, yeah, and people stopped believing in expertise, you know. So I think positive change is for us to be empathetic with one another and starting to trust again.
Speaker 2:Starting to trust again to be able to go to a doctor, that doctor empathizing with us instead of this bullshit kind of like uh discrimination that we have had for the longest time because of who you are in a doctor's office, but they empathizing with you and you being able to just close your eyes and trust that whatever they said is good for you yeah I love, I love that All right, and so this is kind of a customized question for this, just for this understanding, like the orchestral setting and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:And I'm wondering how do you think we can make these spaces, you know, more inclusive toward black and brown folks, in your opinion, I think?
Speaker 2:uh outreach, but that's like the very uh standard kind of pc uh approach, but not any, any basic outreach. I think we are not the saviors of our communities, we are the students of our communities. So as orchestral people, we need to do outreach programs into communities to learn from their communities whatever art form they are practicing, incorporated, and then give a concert by them to them, you know, offering an intertwined collaboration with the community, that bizarre thing of oh, I'm doing this outreach to show you who Mozart is.
Speaker 2:I'm going to show you the music I'm going to teach you, I'm going to save you, I'm going to culture you. You know, no Outreach is to see them as an equal. You know, once you know, they are creating culture on their own.
Speaker 2:Just look at, uh, the history of pop music yeah they are creating life-changing cultural uh uh uh explosions in their community. Why not just learn from them? Yeah, and once. Can you imagine a kid like a teenager doing something like as regarding music or whatever, having the orchestra go to them and then do a collaboration? Bring that kid to the orchestra hall as a soloist or as a collaborator, as a composer or whatever. Can you imagine that whole neighborhood they will be like, oh, Tony or Christian or whoever it's doing something with the orchestra. You know all the neighbors, all the family, everyone has to be there.
Speaker 1:I think that is brilliant in a way, because I mean just community organizing stuff, like pedagogy or ideology is, is like that you go in and you have to listen. Yes, it's like listening and then testing and like kind of fighting that sense of hierarchy and superiority complex within yourself, definitely in the classical world where you think you are better Correct.
Speaker 2:Because you're trained that way. You know what.
Speaker 1:I mean, we're trained that way, to think that, since you're a classical pianist, you are somewhere, and I think people see that they're like, oh, this person is at a higher caliber than this other person.
Speaker 2:Look at this fake rhetoric that exploded in the early 2000s with the baby mozart and oh yeah, the, the, the genius baby, genius rhetoric. You just played mozart and beethoven to babies so that their iq yeah can go up. Yeah, and that's, that's bullshit, you know, but that kind of thing creates that falsehood of. If you are associated with this type of art form or music, then there is an inherent superiority that you are not predicating, it just comes with you.
Speaker 2:No no, no, no, no, no, no. I could never sit down and do edm ever in my life.
Speaker 1:I'm stupid on that realm so that people is superior to me totally in that realm, could you imagine.
Speaker 1:I'm just thinking like even like just reaching out to the community and like I, like I I know this is like a cliche of sorts, but, like you know, I know I know a lot of hip hop artists and I know a lot of like rock artists and all these things, right, and they're really good at what they do, right. I would be so curious to see like an orchestra just straight up, sit down with each other and just collaborate in like an equal way, absolutely. You know where it's like they are learning, they're using their techniques, they're like experimenting, they're playing around. You know, the only time I really see that is in some rare circumstances, right, some cool orchestras out there that are doing that kind of thing but, weirdly, looking behind the scenes and like Hans Zimmer soundtracks. Like Hans Zimmer is like this goofy dude, not really classically trained, right, he's more of a rocker and he likes to go to like orchestras and since he has this prestige because he has his whole like ghost writers and I always say you know he goes to these.
Speaker 1:Like there's think tank, um, yeah, which is, yeah, it's a whole thing. But he goes to the orchestra. He's like what techniques would you love to use? Like you know different musicians who just love to play around with extended techniques and stuff. Like what things can you do? Like, and just approaches it with curiosity, absolutely, rather than superiority. Like play this. Yeah, you know he's like, you know he'll go to the horn section. Like what happens when you do?
Speaker 1:this like what happens when you do this, or what, what you know. He approached it here and that's the only time I've really seen this as a workable example and I think you know it would be amazing to start seeing more of that, and it's financially sustainable as well, because you are bringing people in.
Speaker 2:That means more ticket to you, but you're also elevating that artist and and that artist will boom the economy of that area because people know the artist. Now, right, uh, people that might have not been exposed to it now are exposed to it when they are playing here and there or whatever. Suddenly they are booming the commerce in that area because of that experience that you provided. And then, in addition to that, you know god's willing, if they explode into a world-renowned uh artist, there's always the possibility of a record with that same orchestra. So you know it's, it's a wholly collaborative endeavor that people can just do with immense rewards.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think even the culture element is improved. So then, because now, unfortunately, I go to the symphony and these different places and it's all very, it's the demographics, pretty same. Very gray yeah, pretty same, you know, and very gray yeah, and I'm like you know, I've just been meditating on like how do we, how do we even approach this, you know, how do we approach even diversifying this, or how do we even approach and I think this is like think of all the cool innovative things that would emerge out of a collaboration.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, look at look at video game, music concerts yeah every time, uh, distant worlds. The orchestra that plays final fantasy music yeah goes touring. They sell out, yeah, every single seat, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:They sell out everything.
Speaker 2:So it's not the orchestral music, it's how, how we are presenting it and what are we associating it with. Because when it's orchestral music with movies or orchestral music with video games and people say like, okay with movies, they're just thinking about the movie.
Speaker 2:The video game music is different. The video game music takes a life of its own. You just need to listen to Final Fantasy VII soundtrack and it's entirely leitmotif, Wagnerian driven. Yeah, you can analyze that whole thing as an opera narrative or the added experience that we can then present the music with.
Speaker 1:You have the audience there waiting for you, all right. So here's the time for our two silly-ish questions, all right. So the first question is what is your astrology sign, taurus? Do you resonate with it very?
Speaker 2:much so. I'm a taurus, uh, with a moon in scorpio and a rising in aries. Uh, but I am very taurus, I am very stubborn, I am a great lover I am a.
Speaker 1:I'm a faithful friend, yeah oh my gosh, I love how you know your top three. Yeah, people who listen to this podcast know I have kind of an astrology trip. I used to do readings for a living, just for fun, oh my husband did the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just back another lifetime ago, you know, and it's hilarious. Yeah, I was like what does your astrology say? I am very, very anal with all all you know. Like, if things need to be very my way, yeah, I have a family member who's a tourist family, like they're both couple, they're a couple and you go to their house everything's labeled, yes, yes, everything. Like if it goes out of place, they like turn it like you know, it's perfectly.
Speaker 2:You know, I even fold my fitted sheets in a very specific way. You know, doing laundry is therapy for me. Oh, I love this.
Speaker 1:All right. Second question is if you had some kind of power animal, what would it be? Power?
Speaker 2:animal.
Speaker 1:Some animal that just would inspire you or you.
Speaker 2:Real or fictitious.
Speaker 1:It could be either.
Speaker 2:I love chimeras. Oh yeah, I obviously I love dragons. But if we are going into the realistic realm, vipers when you see a viper it's a very dangerous snake but it's a highly detailed thing. You'd look their iris, their eyes are so special. Their colors are just vibrant and their scales are not just flat, they have almost dragon-ish scales they're just pretty, and more so you know, the other thing. Again going back to the beginning of our conversation, being raised in a Pentecostal background, I think liking snakes is my rebellious I am the truth giver yes, pleasure, eat the fruit.
Speaker 2:Eat the fruit, it's great.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, all right. So here at this point it's your last hurrah. You can just give like where, where can people find you? Uh, any kind of marketing things you want to throw out there? But last words of wisdom, this is your time. Just let me know when you're done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean you can find. All my social medias are Ivan E, because my middle name is Enrique Ivan E Composer. You can find Instagram, facebook, twitter, tiktok, everything. You can find more info in my website, ivanrodriguezmusiccom. Just like the baseball player Ivan Rodriguez punch. And yeah, you know, just reach out for whatever. I'm a very simple person. I love to chat and I love to learn, so feel free to reach out for whatever reason.
Speaker 1:Yvonne, it was amazing having you on Thank you so much for being on. Speak for Change.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:This has been Speak for Change podcast. I'm your host, thomas H Patterson, and have a wonderful day, thank you.