Speak For Change With Thomas Sage Pedersen
Welcome to Speak for Change with Thomas Sage Pedersen! Our mission is to inspire and promote positive and lasting change in our local & global communities.
Speak For Change With Thomas Sage Pedersen
Ep.99 Kayla Kumar | What is Progressivism? And more
About Kayla:
Kayla Kumar is a progressive community worker who operates at the intersection of youth, race, economic, environmental and criminal justice. The purpose of her work is to contribute to the liberation of marginalized communities. She works at a youth empowerment and food justice organization called "Food, What?!". She is on the Board of local healthcare clinic called Salud Para La Gente and economic justice organization called Community Ventures. And, she is appointed to the Juvenile Justice Commission of Santa Cruz County.
Find Kayla:
https://www.instagram.com/kaylakumar4sc/
kaylakumar1@gmail.com
Broadcasting from everyone's music school at the Tanner arts center in Santa Cruz, California. Welcome speak for change podcast. I'm your host Thomas Sage Patterson. Our mission is to inspire and promote positive change in the arts, personal development and culture, business, and politics, and our local and global communities. All right, so I am honored for today's guest. Our guest is a progressive community worker who operates at the intersection of youth raise economic and environmental and criminal justice. The purpose of our work is to contribute to the liberation of margin lies communities. She works at the youth empowerment and food justice organization called food. What<laugh>, she is on the board of a local healthcare clinic, an economic justice organization called community ventures. And she is appointed to the juvenile justice commission of Santa Cruz county. She also ran for Santa Cruz city council, where she ran an amazing campaign, which we refer to in this episode a couple times to talk about what is progressivism. So in this episode, we talk about what does it mean to be progressive politically? And as you can hear in this episode, the nuances of that, and yeah, it was just amazing to have our guests on. She really did shine a light on a lot of interesting concepts for me personally. And so I'm just really excited to share all this for you, with you. Um, so I really hope you enjoy, I'm honored to introduce Kayla Kumar, Kayla Kumar, welcome to speak for change podcast.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Hello everyone. Thank you so much for having me, Thomas. It's great to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it I'm so glad to finally get you on. I know, uh, last time we kind of had to reschedule and, uh, I appreciate
Speaker 2:Feeling better, dude.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I appreciate the flexibility. Uh, for those of that, of you that don't know I had like a COVID scare and I had to get of a test and was this whole drama and, uh, feeling good. Don't have COVID so happy day. Yeah,<laugh>
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:So we were talking off record about a lot of fun stuff, including king in, on violence. And I was
Speaker 2:Podcast already. Actually
Speaker 1:We totally did the podcast. We're just like, okay. Let's, let's talk about what we just talked about. Um<laugh> but when we're talking to you and, and this is really a curiosity to me is your view on progressivism, right? Your view on being a progressive right. And what that means. Right. And so I kind of want to get your perspective of what that means to you. What is that you have around progressive, because it's something that I'm genuinely curious about as someone who is, I consider progressive, but I'm a little confused myself about, I guess, the certain what, what that means. Uh, really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, um, this might be a surprise, but I, I think I'm in the same boat and I think a lot of us are<laugh>. Um, and I think progressive, uh, progressive is, as I said earlier, it's a, it's a word without a definition, but I think actually it's a word with so many yeah. Definite and so many parts and so many pieces. Um, and I think, I think the move, uh, the journey forward to the kind of world that we wanna live in, uh, using progressivism as a vehicle needs to understand that, um, that the, the ideology is, it is actually quite broad, um, people that perhaps, uh, don't identify as I'm a hundred percent progressive, um, people might say, you know what, I think I'm an 80%
Speaker 1:<laugh>
Speaker 2:And like, and being able to, to answer that question of like, does that person quote unquote belong or not? Yeah. I think that's a question to, um, progressivism as a whole. And I think it's, it's a question that I've seen over and over again, I think answered the wrong way, um, via gate keeping, like you're just saying is like, I don't really know if I qualify, like who do I ask?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. No, there's,
Speaker 2:There's a sense that there's some authority<affirmative> that defines and says you're in and you're out. And I think, you know, just that dynamic right there, Thomas, who, who wants to go to a party where they're, you know, like being judged on whether they're they're cool enough,
Speaker 1:You know, on side,
Speaker 2:You know, and so, so that's, that's a long way of saying, um, I don't, you know, I, don't here to, to suggest that I have that I'm at the gate that I'm keeping it. Um, I'm more about, uh, developing access points for folks who are in their journey, who are developing their consciousness around issues that are important, um, and finding solutions in progressivism, as it is defined as a certain policy, a C set as a certain value set as a certain set of leaders, um, in groups, right. Um, identities, uh, I think being broad and, and, uh, uh, I don't wanna say the word inclusive because there are definitely people that like, just straight up, you know, like someone pops that identifies as a conservative of, I don't know if they they're really gonna feel like they're gonna find an access point to see Exactly, but I think it's a lot more people and this is what my campaign, uh, so I ran for, for city council last year, and this is something that my campaign proved is there's, there's so many more people that jive with progressive ideas in this city than I ever thought by a lot by, by a lot. Um, and so, so maybe I'll, I'll pause right there before I get into all the different ways. I think
Speaker 1:<laugh>
Speaker 2:Pro cause I can go on.
Speaker 1:Oh man. No, I mean, that, that sounds wonderful. And I, I feel like a lot of questions just for, so when I look down, I'm always taking notes, like from my listeners, I'm always like, Hmm. You know, what am, what am I gonna write? And I have some notes here. And so I guess, what, what is progressive ideas to you? Because, you know, from what I've seen is when I've talked to people who, who, I don't know if they would identify, I feel like caught Santa Cruz progressive or something, you know? Cause it's like,<laugh>, there's like this spectrum of progressiveness that I see. And, and it's, you know, people who are a little bit more militant, I see like a lot of people who are more like, let's get out there, let's do everything. Let's, you know, shout let's, let's do all this stuff. And then there's people who are like, well, let's work with the business and let's work with the, the, the people and then let's work, you know, kind of going back and forth. And so I see these kind of worlds. Um, so I'm, I am genuinely, Yeah. Curious about what progressive ideas and ideologies are to you.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm<affirmative>, mm-hmm,<affirmative>, that's, that's a great question. And I think we can get to some form, uh, around it from that question. I think, I think it's important to first start by kind of separating out the difference between the ideology, the set philosophy, and then the tactics that groups might use to further and implement that pH of being in the real world. So for instance, you know, um, our more radical brothers and sisters doing a, sit-in doing a protest, um, you know, other types of, you know, um,
Speaker 1:Direct action. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Perhaps more, more conflict is created. Right. Um, you know, that's, that's a tactic that's that, um, is not necess. Um, the, again, GA getting back back to, to gate keeping that does not define progressivism, right. Um, tactic to the tactical set is a spectrum. And as we say, at least in the movements that I'm a part of all tools, all, all means all modes, all thoughts, all voices, all people are necessary to create the old, um, that we want to live in. And so, you know, tactically, on the other side, you might say, you know, um, I think that there is, um, low hanging fruit, so to speak yeah. That we're leading on the tree, Vivi, small businesses, collective business, you know, collectively owned businesses, worker owned businesses, you know, why are we leaving that? Why are we leaving these people out? Right. Yeah. And so I do think that, um, we were talking a little bit about this earlier mm-hmm<affirmative>, but one, one mantra that I is really important to me to, to figure out, you know, am I, am I holding true to my progressive values, which is I'll get into like, like all the different ways to define progressivism, I guess. But, um, is, is the process under that you undertake to deliver a result, tells you all, you need to know about what the result will actually be. It describes what you're actually the way that you do something yeah. Describes what you're gonna get more than any other one liner or promise or intention. Yeah. You know, so for me, I do the tactics that resonate for me, um, are ones where I'm having difficult conversations with people that I don't agree with. Right. Um, that I'm, that I'm complicating people's, um, understanding of what a, a young progressive is by showing respect<laugh>
Speaker 3:<laugh>, but you,
Speaker 2:You know, in the political climate here locally in Santa Cruz, you had a lot, I, I knocked doors and people be like, wait, you're nice though.
Speaker 3:<laugh>
Speaker 2:So, you know, some that some of the reclaiming of what it means to be progressive involves finding the tactic that works for you mm-hmm<affirmative> that talks to you, you know? And, um, and I think from there, what I can say is, so now, okay, I get it the difference between tactics and progressive, but now what's the, what's the philosophy, what's the progressive of course, that changed over the years, back in the turn of century, the 20th century, um, I considered it to be very much about busting monopolies, busting up wealth, reducing the concentration of power to the elite. Um, very much a working person's, um, movement to, to raise up the, the, he everyday person, um, uh, in our societies. And I think that thread still remains, it's something that's really dear to me. And so that's why, you know, you get into these kind of buckets like progressivism, uh, by, by policy progressivism, by values, progressivism by, um, people. Yeah. You know, and so policy wise think about Medi care for all, think about the green new deal, those, those, you know, um, those are definitively progressive and someone's, you know, also say democratically socialist as well. Yeah. Um, those aren't mutually exclusive, nor are they necessarily the same. Um, um, uh, but, but you look at that, those kind of, um, those policies and what's happening first and foremost is a transfer of wealth and power from the top towards the bottom it's reformist. Right. It's not exactly like, you know, I wouldn't describe progressivism as an inherently liberatory set of ideologies. I think it is. I think we have to get real of about there's a reformist element. Yeah. Um, a about what we're doing, saying that, you know, there's, there's an aspect of the status quo that we are willing to stomach. Yeah. So that we can make big changes here, here, and here. And I have to get real with that every day. It's not something I, that sits right with me all the time. Right. Uh, you know, but I, I really share that for the listeners, if that's a tension that you're feeling, I feel it too. And I think it's something we can work through. And I think it doesn't mean that we have to say, I'm not progressive enough,<laugh> it means that you're a human who's figuring it out and like stay in the game with me, you know, that's, that's more what I'm, uh, uh, why I share that. And so, so there's that policy set you might go to, to rent control. Rent control is a very, like, it is not a controversial topic in progressivism. Right. Um, you know, you come to a place like Santa Cruz and, you know, what I found when I was talking to the just kind of average everyday per and knocking on their doors and stuff, they're like, you know, I don't think I'm opposed to it. I just didn't like the drama around measure M and there are parts of it that I didn't like. Right. There's a lot of people that you, they were open to the topic, the approach as a general idea. Right. Right. Do you know what I mean? So that's
Speaker 1:Why I,
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Let me pause here. Cause I've been going on for
Speaker 4:Bring you,
Speaker 1:Oh man. I just, I, I love everything you're saying, I love everything you're saying. And it reminds me of, you know, I feel like there's this view of politics and D ideologies or of politics in general from the outside who are people who are not really involved. Right. So they think maybe there's easier solutions that can be applied right away. And I see that a lot, like, we should just do this, why isn't this happening? Right. But then when you're in it, you realize there's a lot of nuance. There's you can't just go in there with a bat and start swinging around and, you know, and that's where that, that kind of reformist mentality comes in is like, there's a certain part of the status quo. We're willing to stomach, like you said, but with this idea of we're moving and progressing into, uh, is that kind of what you're saying there? Like we're moving. Yeah. We're, we're, we're forming, right. We're, we're building the, the house so to speak or, you know, we're, we're fixing the house, you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think that's, I think that's a totally fair, um, way to relate to it. I think progressivism as, as like a, a, um, a body of, um, um, tactical approaches and strategies. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, I think it's fair to say that that the strategy is, um, like the difference between rent control and like a complete land reformation
Speaker 4:<laugh> yeah. Like there's
Speaker 2:A difference. And I think, I guess I'm, I'm trying to, to be that there's a spectrum of political ideology on the left, right? Yeah. Like democratic socialists, you know, they can, they can, um, be much more towards the root causes yeah. Oriented towards the root causes of, um, these issues. And I, and again, it's not mutually exclusive, but it's also not interchangeable to say you're progressive and, and also a democratic socialist, but I think it's important to yeah. To have the contours and be real about that. And again, as a way to, to develop access points for people, like there are some people that don't identify as like, you know, OV cocktail left
Speaker 1:Folks,
Speaker 2:You know, but they're still, they still hold the same values and principles and resonate, same policy ideas as, as, um, you know, anybody else on the left.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, that is beautiful. And that story of you going to people's homes and not walking on their doors, and then they'd be like, but you're nice. Right.<laugh> I mean, I thought that was kind of showing right. There is a drama to politics, right. There is this idea of this. Um, like a lot of people are not opposed to rent control, you know, they're not opposed to it, but when you talk to them about the nuances, they're like, well, these people were not being heard and these people are not being, you know, hurt. And so I don't really like the drama that's around this. It seems like there's things in it that I'm not for. It's not just the idea of rent control. There's all these other nuances to like the bills that are not addressing other people's voices in the community. So it's almost like how do we measure whose voice to<laugh> to listen to. Right. And because I think that's the biggest thing, right. Is, you know, I talk to some people and they talk about how it would affect landlords in this really negative way. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and then they wouldn't rent out their property because it would be too much of a hassle and all this bureaucracy, stuff like that. And then, but then you have this humongous renting population in this town and shouldn't those voices be heard as well. And so I guess, how do you reconcile with that kind of perspective, right. When actually in the, in the arena doing the, doing the work, you know, how that new, that does that make sense?
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah. You've, you've really hit the nail on the head as far as like, um, a crux of, of, um, tension. I mean, it's, there's so much tension and conflict at that intersection that you just spoke of, of like balancing or the calculus of like who you, you listen to, right. You center. And I think this is a really good segue Thomas into this other bucket of how to understand progressivism yeah. Um, the values bucket. And when, in doubt, you lean, you lean into your values, at least in, in my world. And one of the values of progressivism, I'm gonna say it, cuz it's a word that it's also a word that has many meetings and therefore feels meaningless. Right. Um, but it's it's equity.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:It's equity and equity. You, it, you put that word along all the spectrums of, of politics, a, a liberal, a more Centris. It has, it seems to have a, uh, its own implications down to conservatives. It's a totally different implications. I can speak, I think really well about what it means to me as a, as a progressive yeah. Um, equity means, uh, is equity is very different from equality, right? And that's why they're, they're, they're often on two different sides of all the diagrams and conversations that, that you talk about. Equality means everyone's voice is listened to equally for the, the, the same amount of time. Um, they all get the same, uh, weight of their vote. That's that's equality and that's the world that we want to live in. I think, um, mm-hmm,<affirmative>, you know, I think there's perhaps some, some shades of, of uncertainty there, but I think we all value the idea of equality. The problem is, is that doesn't exist in our, in our<laugh> in our society. I don't, I don't know any, well, I think like Ben, Carl Carson was the, the last person, um, the former HUD, uh, secretary that said that equality existed. Um, but it doesn't and, um, equity is a method of making right. And moving towards that place. Right. And it's, and it does so by, by recognizing very simply there are some people that have been listened to a long time. There are some people that have an exorbitant, more disproportionate amount of wealth and power than others. So, you know what, we're going to, even the scale by listening to those who have not been listened to at a higher we're going to bring them to the center. And that does that's that's, you know, people are really scared of that in practice. I think mm-hmm<affirmative> because it does go it's so far against the grain. Yeah. Um, from the mainstream status quo. Right. Um, and that, so, so for me, when, when someone asks, like, who do you listen to? Because there, you know, there's business interests and there's wealth interests. And, and then there's like the average everyday person. Um, I say, well, as someone that believes equity is, um, it's not just important and it's not just a buzzword. Um, it is, it is the way to the world that we wanna live in. So I, I practice it a hundred percent and I center voices of people that aren't her, I center voices of, of, uh, bipo of it, of, um, people who don't speak English as a first language or, um, speak multiple languages, immigrants. Um, the people that are, that are constantly, um, pushed to the side, but then we depend on for nearly everything<laugh>. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so, so that's, um, you know, it's, it's, it's re it's really easy for me to say that, you know, mm-hmm,<affirmative> in practice, it's tough. It's tough looking someone in the eyes and say like, will, are you willing to, um, take a step back? So somebody else can take a step forward to the center and really guiding some one through that thought process. Right. Um, I've learned a lot about human nature. I've learned a lot about myself. I've learned a lot about, um, just how complex our city is in our community is. Um, and so, so that's the, you know, the gen as far as like, you know, equity goes, yeah. I think, um, there, you know, compassion, um, uh, is another value that I think is very unique to progressive. It is this idea that compassion, like the fact that you care for the suffering of another person, um, is relevant to the political sphere. It's relevant to the way that we make policy. It can be a driving force. It doesn't always have to be well. Okay. But how does the top half get their pay or get their price?<laugh> yeah. We don't have to make policy, uh, under the ball and chain of like, yes, but how do those who already have a lot of wealth, uh, continue to, to keep it or compound it? Like we don't have to organize ourselves around those, those identities if we don't want to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I, you know, everything you're saying sounds, you know, wonderful. I think the most people would agree, uh, with, with that kind of logic, right? The logic of it, if you have, if you haven't been heard in the past or in the history, then you should be heard. Right. That, that, that is how we get to equality. Right. That is how we get there. That is the pathway to get to equality. But that being said, it seems that we live in a culture where when you bring that up, you know, people get threatened, right. People get threatened that their voice now is not as strong as it was in the past. Mm-hmm<affirmative> right. And that brings up a lot of personal development work, right? Like this idea of like, am I not being heard? You know, I didn't do anything to do this. You know, I, it cause this, uh, and other perspectives that, you know, it's logically, you can just say, you're wrong. Right. You know,<laugh> like, logically, you can say, you're wrong. Like, you know, you, you, you represent, you have to look at the bigger picture in this, uh, in, in this scenario. Right. But people take things so personally, and so at home where if their voice is not being heard as loud as, you know, a, a black person or a brown person, then they may feel like they're threatened and then they'll fight. And they, they don't care about logic. Logic is not what what's gonna change their mind. Mm. Right. And so when dealing with those kind of issues, what are some strategies you personally, so I'm not, I don't expect you to have all the answers. Right. I'm just asking what you personally would do in those strategies of how, how to build that connection or how to move forward in those situations of conflict. Mm-hmm,<affirmative> where people are feeling, I guess, isolated, even though their voice has been heard for probably yeah. For all of American history, uh, over the voices of the unheard, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Um, there's, there's the good news is there's a lot of, um, uh, wisdom and experience from our elders who have passed on to me. And then also from my, my youngers, um, as well about, um, ways that they've navigated this and, and broadened yeah. Um, the path so that more of us can be on it. And I think, I mean, so much is coming to mind and, and I can give you kind of like a generalized,
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, just break
Speaker 2:Down, but then it's really interesting to, to understand how this, how this has, um, manifested in, in Santa Cruz and pizza.
Speaker 1:Go ahead. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:That's the juicy part, I gotta say. So in general, I think I'm very interested at the, of the intersection of politics and healing. Yeah. Um, it is not something you hear a lot, but I<laugh>, but I actually do think, um, someone who, um, basically, you know, approach the whole campaign is I wanna listen to people and I wanna learn from them. I wanna share, I wanna share what I'm about. I wanna be honest and I wanna have a conversation from there. I'm not interested in convincing anybody of anything. Right. Um, I'm more trying to investigate my hypothesis, which, which proved true in, in Santa Cruz that I just don't think people are as against it or threatened by it as I thought. Yeah. I think actually people are really interested in genuine solutions to the social problems that plague our society, um, and, and St and keeping the conversation, um, to, to where<affirmative>, where it happens, where, where it's possible, all the ways that we do overlap. And I know that sounds kind of like hokey mm-hmm<affirmative>. Um, but if you can keep it again, it's, it's, uh, talking about forces, talking about values, talking about, um, the end game, the goal not talking about, well, did this clause work for you or not? Or did this person work work for you? You know, does this person sound, you know, do you resonate with this? It's like keeping it, um, to the task at hand. So, so that's a, a general an answer is I would, you know, you tell stories, you tell stories of struggle and you listen to their stories of struggle, and you identify the ways in which our struggle intersects, because you know what, 99% of the people in Santa Cruz are not the hyper wealthy that are causing so much of the instability in our community. Actually, there's a lot, we're actually a lot more on the same team and, and being a feet on the ground knocking doors. I I'm so happy to share that, that it's like, it's true. I there's a lot, like I'll, I'll, I'll maybe shift to that. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, um, you know, take the issue, the number one issue that came up for me when I was talking to, to average everyday people who I didn't know already. Yeah. Um, was houselessness like in, in the, like thick of COVID 19 mm-hmm,<affirmative> the stuff on, uh, you know, like all of that, um, pain that was arising, um, from, uh, the, you know, police murder and violence and, um, and still in Santa Cruz, like the number one issue I heard, like by far was how houselessness. Yeah. And, you know, I heard a lot of folks that were like, listen, I don't want anyone to be harmed or houseless, or, you know, like, I don't wish ill on anybody. There was a few people that seemed like they were very, um, they took it very personally. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, um, uh, the fact that other people were houseless us. And I'm not really sure how to, to, to work with that. Um, to be honest with you, because it's not personal. No, one's doing that to personally affront anybody. Um, but you know, the, the wide range of people I talked to that were like, listen, I don't want harm on anybody. Right. And, you know, I am just on comfortable or I, you know, I worry about my young, my, my young daughter walking around in the park, because I'm, I'm, I'm afraid that there's gonna be a needle, you know, and, and these like very, you know, um, these very like human fears. Yeah. Right. And I think what was really generative, what was really healing was to, to, um, hold space with someone, um, that they perceive to be like anti homeowner and pro, like,<laugh> like, I don't know, pro something else and be like, yeah, like, it sounds like you have a lot of fear around this. Like, let's talk about yeah. That, and, and I would hear them talk about it and be like, you know, like, I think fear is a really powerful emotion. And I think it's something that you have to listen to. And there's also all of these other sources of information about our world, like data, like research, like what about the hope, or do you have someone in your life who's gone through a really hard time, that's this close to losing their housing? Do you know anybody who struggles with the relationship to drugs and alcohol? Um, think about how close this is to you through your personal relationships. It's much closer. I'm sorry to say than anybody really, when you, you know, when you sit down and think it's unfortunately very close to you. And I would say at the end of that know, after giving them their space to be human about it, to have be where they were at with it and acknowledge it. And I would say, okay, let's talk about solutions. Now. What if I told you that the solution I'm about is making sure all of those people have housing, they have shelter and, and they have access to trash receptacles. So, you know, you know, needles aren't going, uh, in the grass, although there's, I wanna be clear there's actually, um, not a whole lot of evidence that that's happening. Yeah. Anywhere just to, this is just the person's fear. Yeah. Right. So, so I wanna be really clear. There's actually not a lot of evidence that there's a huge needle litter. Um, right. But anyway, I'm just saying, um, so like imagine, you know, they, that, that they're able to, to, you know, like drink in their home, like everybody else is allowed to, instead of out on the street<laugh> yeah. You know what I mean? And they're like, yeah. That like even the, the harshest critic yeah. Critic of people experiencing houselessness was like, yeah, duh. Yeah. Like, why don't we do that? Right. And I, I gotta tell you, Thomas, it was mind blowing. Cause it wasn't like, get them on a bus and get them the hell outta here. Yeah. It wasn't like disappear them. It was like, get them help. Right. Right. And so that's what I say is like, like, I don't think people are as threatened as they are UN listened to. And, and like when they have a chance to just share their fears and not be judged for, you know, for, for experiencing a social problem, the way that they are. Um, and then, and then redirected to like their is here's a solution based in data based in values. Um, I, I found like, I, I would say every single time, I, I cannot recall a single person that was, that had a different reaction than like, why aren't we doing that?<laugh> let's do that. So, so I, I, I, that was a long way to say, I think, you know, the way to talk to people is to let them feel threatened. Yeah. Um, and then find a way to move them through that human feeling. Um, the way that people have done for me, you know, like I had to grow my consciousness too, like be humble as somebody who's an organizer who is who's, um, espousing aggressi is who is, you know, politically minded. Yeah. Uh, be humble, you know, and understand like, people are where they're at. Like, you don't have to scold them.<laugh>, you know, like you don't have to yell like, you know, green, new deal in people's faces until they agree. Like it just doesn't, it doesn't work, man. And it's again, in it's like the process tells you a lot about what you'll get. Yeah. Right. So, so that's, that's one, that's one way there's a lot more, but I don't think I'll
Speaker 1:<laugh> no, no, I, I think that, that was beautiful. I love this, this, everything you just said, because it really does, from my personal experience, people, people do want to help the houseless. Right. They really do want to yeah. I've, I've, there's like a minority of people I think that are just really loud. That's right. And, and they, and they clearly have an agenda and they, you know, they're not, they're not looking at facts. They're not looking at any of that. They're just, they're just looking at proving their, their club or their, their ideal ideology. And, and one of the things that comes up is, you know, so we're both trained in and nonviolence, so that's awesome. I know.<laugh> um, so yeah, so this is everything you're talking about to me is just like, yes, yes, that's right. You know, and, uh, we talked about when in training, uh, different types of conflict, like, and, and one is called a pathways conflict, right. Where, where the goal is the same, like you both wanna go to the grocery store. Right.<laugh>, you know, but person a wants to ride their bike person B wants to drive or, you know, that kind of thing. Right. So how, you know, at the type of conflict to recognize, right. And it seems like this town, when you really talk to people, I think people want to have the houseless be taken care of and like have their own homes and be healed and being, you know, not just taken out, you know, not just put on under the rug, but I, I, I guess I'm faced with this idea of, cause every time I talk about this with somebody, the values are the same. So it's not a values conflict. Most people have the same values. They, they want that to happen. They want that they, they, they value these people as human beings when you really talk with them.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm
Speaker 1:<affirmative>, but the pathway of getting there is dramatically different. The process of getting there is a bit different, uh, you know, I've heard people doing, talking about transitional homes or transitional encampments mm-hmm<affirmative> and the effectiveness of that, but then giving rise to the people who live in those neighborhoods, their voice is louder than the people who are advocating for the transitional homes. And so it never gets done. And so I just, this is a selfish question. I'm just curious about what, what your take on that is, this is purely selfish. This is just me curious about, I guess, what is your process and what is your solution to that houseless problem? I know<laugh>, it's like you probably get that a lot. Um, but I'm just, I'm, I'm just genuinely curious because, you know, it's such a thing, cuz it, it it's nuanced because people's values are similar. They want the problem to be solved and they see the humanity within the people. There's even people I know who are very conservative and religious who go out there, they're giving food to the homeless. They're like, you know, they, they, they see them as people, you know, they're really practicing those Christian values. And, um, but yeah, at the same time, some of those people are like, maybe I don't want like an encampment in my back yard kind of mentality. Mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so I guess what is, what is your view on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Um,<laugh>,
Speaker 1:It's just your opinion. I don't expect you to have the answer, you know,
Speaker 2:<laugh>, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm just trying not to go on and, uh, uh, a long winded answer because again, such an energizing question, I there's a lot coming up for me, um, which is good. There's I think a lot of pathways, um, to, to a solution, right? Yeah. I think the first thing I wanna, um, and listening to talk, Thomas, I think, I think it's possible that there's shared values along the spectrum of politics, mainly between people, um, who are, um, more conservative, um, and center, you know, center conservative and, um, liberals. Yeah. Um, you know, progressives are, are, are, uh, to the left of that business. Yeah. Right. Um, and, and again, I wanna be really clear about the difference between saying you value equity and practicing.
Speaker 1:Yes. Um,
Speaker 2:Yes. Valuing we
Speaker 1:Go,
Speaker 2:There's a big issue. I mean, seriously, there's a big branding. So to speak issue in this town of folks, um, are being fed information from, you know, marketing and, you know, like yes, those kind of special interests of like, you know, progressivism means that you value the wellbeing, um, of people with housing or businesses, um, equally, you know, to, to that of people that don't have, um, you know, that make, that make poverty wages that, you know, um, yeah. Don't have housing. Um, that's, I think there's a lot of work done in our local information, um, ecosystem mm-hmm<affirmative> to confuse equity with equality. Yeah. Um, and, and, uh, so, so I think, I think the values, um, question is a question to me. I don't actually know if I agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Right. And, and it's, and it's yeah. I guess the nuanced way of saying that is like, I don't really agree, uh, with it. Right. Cause I know people who have different values and maybe they're practicing of those values look a lot D and so that questions, the actual values. Right. Um, and so, so then, then we get into the question of, yeah. We do not have the shared values there and yeah, yeah, no, totally, totally. And I guess, I guess, uh, my, I guess my question then is what would you do with, like, if you could, if you could get into the, in the office and get into the, the, the government, what would you do? What would you do to kind of help this houseless situation?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, um, just practically speaking, developing shelter, develop, um, housing options along the spectrum of short term to, to chronic. Um, there are, there is actually a project in the pipeline. My, my friend's siblings, uh, putting it forward as a supportive housing project, um, that, you know, uh, one of the key features of it is to reach folks who are experiencing chronic housing insecurity and house. Um, those projects are possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, and so, you know, I think, um, uh, the county has a roadmap that, that it released last year. Oh my God. Yeah. Last year. Wow.
Speaker 5:<laugh> whoa. 20, 20<laugh>
Speaker 2:Think of crisis. Um, okay. So, so, you know, they shared an intent to increase the amount of beds mm-hmm<affirmative> available. Um, I think about 140, which is ambitious and we'll see to be quite Frank. That's how I, I feel about the county and the way it's been ha uh, handling this issue. Yeah. Um, and we have to also understand too, that the barriers to accessing those resources exist, like folks I'm constantly concerned about those who don't comport to yeah. Bureau bureaucratic methods of delivering services, you to, um, you know, you gotta go through this entire, the forms, the paperwork, right. Um, you can't be struggling or, you know, or healing through, you know, misuse of drugs or alcohol. You gotta just magically get sober.<laugh>, you know, like it doesn't, you know, anybody who knows anything about addiction, it just doesn't work that way. You don't give someone, you know, um, an Al you know, they would've stopped. You think, you know, you think folks are just like, so pumped
Speaker 5:<laugh>
Speaker 2:To be outside in the rain. Right. Like, and they just, because drugs are just that fun for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean? Like, it just, doesn't, it's so out of I, out of touch and you can't, you know, um, bring partners, for instance, this is the three P's partners, pets and possessions. And then I also add in the kind of that other barrier. So, um, you know, being able to have a partner and have them be able to spend time with you in privacy, you know, like these are things that people with housing don't think twice about, but the second that, um, this person is experiencing houselessness, all of a sudden it's people's business. Yeah. You know, um, and, and possessions, like imagine, you know, like having to drop all the, you know, it's just the, it's the dignity of it all. Yeah. Um, is in question for me. And so these, so what I would add to that as someone, um, I guess this is the county level, but as an advocate, as someone that would have the platform and be developing the relationships mm-hmm<affirmative> is to say, you need to lower the barriers for folks to access these beds in these rooms. Yes. Not just about building. Yes. Can they can people who are struggling most access them. Yes. And I think that's a long road. I think that's, in some ways it's harder than building, believe it or not in this town<laugh>
Speaker 1:Oh, I believe it. I believe it. Yeah. Um, because, you know, I know the county<laugh>,
Speaker 5:You know,
Speaker 2:How do you know that are just been keeping up with it?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I just keeping up with it, you know, and, and like, I don't know, making, I think it's easy to say we're gonna have 140 beds by this date. Like we're gonna build, but putting all these, I mean, that's how systemic anything works. Right. They put a bunch of bureaucracy between the individual and the help they need mm-hmm<affirmative>, you know, and that's, I mean, that's how voting, that's why the voting right act was passed. You know, when black people were in, I'm gonna bring up Selma Alabama. Right. You know, black people could vote technically only if they could count how many cotton balls are in a jar, you know? Uh, have you seen cotton balls in a jar? I mean, it is, it's like one cotton ball, right. And it's like, oh, well, you can't count the cotton balls in the jar. Sorry, you can't vote. And I know that's like a very mundane way of looking at it, like a very real, but it's, what's the difference between that and putting unrealistic expectations on houseless people and people who are suffering through addiction to be able to get into housing. What is the difference between those two things? And it's just fancier, it's just fancier. It's just like, well, you know, you technically don't check this, this and this so sorry. And it it's a cop out in my opinion that, you know, I'm getting passionate about, about this, but you know, it, it, it feels like a, a little cop out. Cause it's like, you know, we provided the buildings, we provide the beds, but you know, like they're not, they're not stepping up or they're not, you know, doing these things. And that's a common
Speaker 2:Thing that you hear too. They're like, you know, houseless, people just don't want help.
Speaker 1:They don't, they don't want help. Right. They don't want, I'm like, you know, and that's, and that's, uh, it's not true. It's not true. And if you've dealt with mental health and if you've dealt with addiction, yeah. They may say stuff like that. You know, they may say, I don't want help or I don't want, you know, but I don't know if that's ne I think you need to get a counselor are in there and to really provide a service to help those people really understand their minds and understand the personal development side. I think as a society, we, we tend to ignore psychology and personal development and, and the, the real power that has, you know, emotional intelligence oceans, um, because it's not something measurable. It's not something we have put as value in our society. Mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so politicians usually don't talk about those things. They talk about building structures, they talk about building beds, they talk about the physical, but they forget. Yeah. Yeah. If you're, if you're lucky, right. If you're lucky, but they don't mention the emotional, social, personal development side of things cuz that, and a lot of times they don't know. I mean, they don't know, they haven't done personal development work on themselves. Maybe, you know, maybe they haven't understood that. Who knows. Yeah. But I think, uh, we need to start a drug resting these issues. And I love where you're coming from, like really asking people where they're at and talking with them, really just having conversations with them, for them to share their stories, share their own perspective of where they're coming from. It really does and share their emotions, you know, and, and give value to those emotions. Right. As much as logic, logical people and all these things, as we don't, as we like to, we, we don't want it to be the case, but we are emotional beings. Right. You know, we are so emotional, you know, and you can't tell me, there has been, there has not been policies passed just because of some, some guy in some office who got emotional and was like, I need to do this. I need, you know, I'm. Yeah. So I mean, if we are going to, we have to, we have to accept reality, I think. And that's, that's a part of reality and mm-hmm,<affirmative> that being said, you know, what do you think about that? And then I'm gonna ask you another question after that, but what do you think about, what do you think about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think, oh, what was, I mean, what was really coming up for me actually was, was about, um, You know, so as far as like the emotional, I, I think emotions are, you know, I, I think that we live in, um, you know, at least, you know, how I experience it, white middle class culture, which tends to, um, hold thought and logic, uh, Supreme and emotions are seen as, um, these kind of like things to, to, to manage and modify and hide. And I think we can see why there's, there's so much, um, uh, I think imbalance<laugh> yeah. Health wise in our society is such. And so I do, I think, like, I think emotions again, it's like, it's all, all tools, right? Mm-hmm,<affirmative>, it's what I think about it. I think it's getting people to a place where they can, they can feel it in their, their gut. You know, when I tell them, you know, about the stories of young people who are on the streets, who, you know, got out of foster care and there was no, no housing that, you know, the state just had to drop them. Yeah. You know, and all the work that these young people do to still go to school and how they do their homework under a streetlight mm-hmm<affirmative>, you know, and how, you know, they can't, um, they can't store food. So how do you know they have to, they, they have to eat within, you know, a, a fast, a joint if it's open. But now it's a little bit hard because everything's CLO you know, like you talk to somebody about that and you, you know, you think about, um, often thinking about, you know, younger, like children, youth going through these social problems tends to be like an, an access point for folks to really drop the, the kind of entrenched, systematized social condition to resent people. Yeah. Who don't have, um, who don't conform to the system as easily as they could. It's harder to do that with a child. Right. And so I've actually seen a lot of growth with like complete strangers.
Speaker 3:<laugh> fun
Speaker 2:Of like talking about it from that place and seeing them be able to like, let the logic and the, yeah. The, the, take their, their fist down a little bit and feel for a second. I think it's actually really, really important for us to create containers for our community to, to really, um, face the truth. And, and I think, you know, there's getting back to progressivism. I think we have a lot of work to do about, um, you know, is it, do we put up a mirror to everybody and say like, you're a monster.
Speaker 3:<laugh>, you know what I mean? Or
Speaker 2:Do we, do we hold these ceremony? I felt like there was ceremony happening. Yeah. You know, with these people who were for the, it seemed like for the first time really coming into contact with yeah. The, the suffering and the devastation. And so it's from that place, Thomas that I, I really wanna make the point that I would love to have a transitional encampment in my backyard. Um, I know other people that I knock these doors, I called these phones. Yeah. There are other people in this town that would too. So I wanna make sure that that's really clear and you know what, we're both, uh, you know, I wouldn't say, um, proponents of conflict, but we both know that conflict can be generative. Yes. And that the people that aren't there yet. Right. Um, with how they relate to an actual solution to houselessness and all of the, the byproducts that, um, you know, bother them. Yeah. Um, we gotta, we gotta make sure that we can hold the conflict and say like, listen, you know, you don't have to, you know, like, there's nobody, that's gonna be able to make everybody happy. Yeah. Um, what you need in leaders are people that are gonna solve the problem and be able to, and part of doing that, I believe is managing the conflict, not avoiding it. Yeah. And not, um, you know, know, like, not like stamping it with your foot either.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, no, you gotta let it be. You gotta, you gotta reco, you know, honor where people are coming from and then stand firm in your values as a progressive in policy that has data as a progressive, as a, as someone in a lineage of social justice fighters, liberatory thinkers who have, you know, like you think Martin people were stoked about Martin Luther king getting all of his work done and putting all the solutions like, no, you know, like he had to deal with the conflict of people not being ready. Um, so that's, I think that's kind of the answer to the question is, is, uh, I'm not scared to, to, um, uh, put a solution forward and have it be complicated for people. Yeah. Like I actually really, I find the answer to on, on mass systemwide is, is being able to own that conflict and transform it into something generative. So hopefully that answers, and I know it's hard. I know, like it's, it's really hard to do. And the actual, you know, the policies and stuff. I, I, I don't know if you want me to nerd out too much.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's good, man. You you're, you're speaking my language here, you know, and, and it brought up a lot for me right now. And I, you know, I took a look at the, you know, and I'm like, okay, we could talk about that. I feel like we just need to get you on again. Um, because<laugh>,<laugh>, we we're running outta time and we need to get to the second part of this interview. Oh. So, so no, no. Do not say, sorry, because that was all amazing. And I want to keep on talking. That is the problem. You, you're bringing up all these things that I'm like, you know, you know, I'm thinking about Martin Luther King's take on negative and positive piece. Right. Oh. And you know, and how, how that is reflected here, you know? And<affirmative>, I think that is, you know, we see that, that idea of conflict being inherently bad. Right. Conflict's always bad. Right. But it's not right. You know, there's positive piece where, you know, you have peace with the presence of justice in it. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and the negative piece where you're literally trying, without the presence of justice, you are avoid the issue. You're trying to hide away from the issue. You know, you're taking the problem out and putting it somewhere else. And you're happy because you're not the problem's over here now, you know, you, you kind of put it under the rug. Right. And so I, I completely agree with, uh, a lot of what you're talking about and like a lot of stuff came up, but that being said, we're gonna move on to the second question around here. Okay. Right on. All right. So we're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by everyone's music school. The E the mission is to create positive and lasting change in people's lives with music education, they do online. And in person lessons, they have two locations, one at the arts center in Santa Cruz, California, and another in the L Rancho shopping center in pleasure point, California, for full transparency. I am the founder of everyone's music school, uh, to sign up, you can go to everyone's music, school.com/contact in the sign up form. If you say, speak for change family, you'll get our family discounted rate. You know, everyone's music, school is such a special place, and it's just growing. And we really do care about our students. As you know, from listening to this podcast. You know, we, we take all the stuff we've learned here and from our guests, and really try to incorporate all into our school and into our teaching. Um, they are not really as separate as they may seem. Um, I'm very much involved under the day to day. So if you reach out, you'll be getting music education, but you'll get, be getting so much more than that. All right. Well, hope you enjoy the show. All right. Welcome back to our thoughtful question round. First question is, do you have any quotes that you live by or think of often?
Speaker 2:Yes. Um, I think of the, the quote from one of the quotes from Gandhi, which is full effort is full victory. And it reminds me as someone that, um, I often get, um, oh, gosh, I don't know, like maybe perfectionism or, you know, I care so deeply about, and I I'm just so, um, distraught of like, about the suffering yeah. In your community that I think if I don't, you know, like that, you know, if something I do, doesn't like actually have an impact, like an impact. I can see that there's a failure or something. And yeah, that, that quote really reminds me, um, to, of who I want to be is a person that's fully present. That's doing everything that she can to help her community. And that is actually the work that is the victory.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's a good one.
Speaker 1:I love that. It reminds me, you know, I, I quote Teddy Roosevelt, the man in the arena, quote, a lot. Right. And it's this, um, you know, you could put woman or man in the arena in, in parentheses in there, but it's a quote about being like, life is not for the critics that judge you while you're, you're in the arena who like CRI, who criticize the person who for the falls down and gets marred and, you know, hurt. And it's a long quote, but it's about how critics, don't it's about the people who are in the arena know, doing the, fighting, doing the, just doing the action, you know, really getting the things, trying to get the things done, you know, really just doing the work, not the people who are on the sidelines constantly, you should do this. Why are you doing this? What, you know, like, you know, so I, I always remind myself of that. It's like, you know, I'm doing the best I can. I'm working, I'm in it. You know, I'm in the arena. If I'm feeling in the arena, I have to myself, I'm in the arena. Like, and the peoples who opinions count to me are the people who are in there with me. Right. You know? Right. And so, all right. Second question.<laugh> What is something you believe that other people think is crazy?
Speaker 2:Just one thing
Speaker 3:Gets one
Speaker 1:Thing
Speaker 3:<laugh>,
Speaker 2:You know, I think, I think that, um, right. One. Okay. Here's one thing I think that we, um, as a society should give people who are experiencing poverty, not just in this crisis, but, um, until we get to a place of true harmony and solidarity in our, in our society, we should give them the resources that they need in the form that they need cash or housing, um, without any strings attached. Yes. And without, um, uh, you know, yeah. Just without any bias or stigma. Um, I think that really like the easiest way to solve poverty is to give people money<laugh>.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I know people are like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, you know,
Speaker 1:<laugh>, you know, I, I, I think, I think maybe I would've gone there, um, in my mind a while ago, but after studying different political systems around the world, I'm like, that's not, that's not too unusual. Um,
Speaker 2:We're doing it now.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's not, I guess
Speaker 2:It used to be that people thought it was crazy until COVID 19. And everybody's like, get cash assistance out to as many people as possible rent assistance. It's like, so it's like now that, um, society agrees that there's a crisis afoot that, you know, poverty that was racialized<laugh> right. You know, it's predominantly people of color before was not considered a crisis. I consider crisis. Um, and now we're seeing now and we all do agree.<laugh> some things are crisis. We just give resources freely out so,
Speaker 1:And that's, and that's, yeah, it's unfortunate. Mm-hmm,<affirmative> it's and I'm hoping that we can change that. I think, I think we're on the right path though. I think we're on the right path. All right. So what new belief, behavior or habit has most improved your life?
Speaker 2:You know, um, belief. So, so, um, it's something I, I didn't talk about too much, um, in the previous segment, but is, is really key to, um, my recent run for office to how I, I, as a progressive, as someone, you know, who cares deeply for people and struggle, um, is the, I guess, I guess they're two different things, but the, the, um, intergenerational and intersectional, um, like applying those to the things that I actually do in my life has been, I think the most rewarding, um, like life enriching. It hadn't, you know, it's, it obviously made my campaign a really strong one. Um, but like as a person learning from my elders and my youngers and having it be normal right. You know, to, to have people of different age groups involved in the same project, I haven't experienced that to cruise. There seems to be, to me kind of a divide yeah. Um, between generations. And I know, I, I, you know, I think, I don't think I'm, you know, um, naming anything that we haven't all kind of experienced, but, um, I think just, you know, starting to bridge that gap and the feel of the Baton passing yes. To the next generation of leaders in this city, in this county. Yeah. Um, you know, uh, to have that be done in like this, this intergenerational, this like acknowledging the wisdom of my elders, acknowledging the lessons that they've learned, being humble to that. And also the same, you know, to people that are younger than me, all the knowledge that they have, all the gifts that, you know, the, the, they offer the freshness of their legs. So to speak
Speaker 3:The
Speaker 2:Dream, the vision. Yeah. You know, of, of younger people. I, I just, I, I'm not, I don't know how I'm gonna like, make any decisions in my life ever again now, without
Speaker 3:Consult, being
Speaker 2:Able to consult a,
Speaker 3:The council.
Speaker 1:I love that. Um, when you feel overwhelmed or unfocused, what do you do
Speaker 2:Overwhelmed or UN unfocused? Um, I'm trying to think of what those feelings are. Uh,
Speaker 1:Like I don't feel overwhelmed ever.<laugh>,
Speaker 3:Um,
Speaker 2:I'm in a perpetual state of feeling. Um, like I have more on my plate than is probably healthy for a normal, um, human
Speaker 3:<laugh>.
Speaker 2:I'm just trying to pick out like, you know what, I think I watch Netflix. I think I watched TV.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, sorry. I'm not like I was gonna try to be spiritual here, but
Speaker 3:I don't,
Speaker 2:I don't. I just watch TV shoot. No,
Speaker 1:No, that's good. That's a that's I love that answer. Um, cause I think a lot of people do, you know, and that's not, I don't think there needs to be shame around that, but you know, like<laugh>, you know, so I, I appreciate the honesty. Yeah. All right. So here's the next one?<affirmative> if you had to gift one book or books to someone, what would they be?
Speaker 2:Wait, books. You said?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you could do books, maybe three up to
Speaker 2:3 0 3 now. Okay. How did that make it harder?
Speaker 3:<laugh>
Speaker 2:Okay. Um, I need everyone to drop what they're doing and go to a local bookstore and purchase emergent strategy by Adrian Marie Brown. She is, um, I think one of the most important black liberation thinkers of our time. Um, and she teaches me on the reg. She also has an incredible Instagram account.
Speaker 1:<laugh> yeah, she does.<laugh>
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You follow a,
Speaker 1:I have the book right there.
Speaker 3:<laugh>
Speaker 2:Yeah. Uh, that, that, uh, influenced my campaign quite a bit with the way that we organize. Um, I
Speaker 3:<laugh>,
Speaker 2:I think that people, um, in this day and age, um, I think reading, um, thus spoke Zeho by NCHE okay. Is important. Um, in that work, he is the famous goddess dead quote, but it's oh gosh, Thomas it's like the most misquoted quote of, of course, like of Western civilization. Um, what he's talking about is at the turn of the century, people were moving away from the church as
Speaker 1:Going to the enlightenment,
Speaker 2:Right? Yeah. Of how to, how to, you know, um, guide our lives and that there was a vacuum now and he was pointing it out and saying like, we have to fill this vacuum where we're all gonna lose our moral fiber, our very core of humanness. We have to, you know, we have to figure something out. That's what he meant when that's what he is talking
Speaker 1:About. It's like, it's like what we're dealing with right now. It's literally what we're dealing with right now.
Speaker 2:I think he called it, uh, very problematic person actually, but
Speaker 1:Course<laugh>
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, but, but that being, I mean that, oh man, I'm glad you mentioned that. Cuz you know, like back in the civil rights movement, right. We had MLK and we had, you know, Malcolm X, right. The two things those guys had in common, obviously where, you know, the liberation of black, but also they were both super religious and moral morality was a big thing for them, you know? And I just, I think there is a, there's a space that, yeah, I've been, I've been saying that, but I've, I haven't really made the connection with NCHE that's that that's really oh man. I'm thing, but yeah,
Speaker 2:I've got plenty. I've got all of, part of me, his, his works. Uh, if you ever wanna borrow a book
Speaker 1:<laugh> I'm I'm gonna take up on that.<laugh>
Speaker 3:He?
Speaker 2:He he's a yeah. Anyway, um, so that's two. Okay. Yeah. So the third one, um, I have to say philosophy was just, is just such an important part of my life mm-hmm<affirmative> and so I think, um, the second sex by Samoan DIOI, um, a, uh, a woman philosopher phenomenologist existentialist, uh, and in it, she, you know, it's obviously an investigation into the inequity and inequality between men and women. Yeah. Um, but in it, one of, one of my favorite, uh, kind of guiding lights that I pulled out from it that I still think about is how she talks about liberation as a relationship between, um, two people and struggle. Yeah. Not at, as an individualized, like, you know, internal, um, happening that just kind of emerges if you meditate for long enough or, you know, uh, like yeah. Stay away from oppressive forces for long enough. She said, liberation is a dynamic that exists between two people mm-hmm<affirmative>. And, um, it's really, uh, guided the, that I do my work and that I, I, um, had to start moving away from my own, um, like obsession with myself and my thoughts and moving away from that, cuz that's how I was conditioned as, as a child in this society and moving towards a collectivist, other, um, this real, genuine love for other people. Yeah. And caring about their wellbeing, um, in a very deep way and wanting, you know, all the best for them, you know, as a practice, that philosophy helped me in gender. Um, so yeah, those are the three. Oh,
Speaker 1:That was a good, that's a powerful thought. Oh man. Oh man. Okay. So I'm gonna give you, let's see, we're gonna have one more question here. What advice would you give yourself 10 years ago?
Speaker 2:How old was I? I was 20. I was 22. Mm-hmm
Speaker 3:<affirmative>
Speaker 2:What was I doing? You know, I, you know what I would tell her, I think at that time she still thought that, um, that, you know, people, uh, in general that especially people in power knew what they were doing
Speaker 3:<laugh>
Speaker 2:Um, and that there was, there were people at the top of power structures that were there because they just like knew that, you know, they had it all figured out and I would never be one of those people. Right. Cause I had so many questions and so many doubts and I didn't do this. Right. And what if I failed? And you know, um, that took a lot of space in my mind. And I think one way I'd help her work through that. Now 10 years later is say like, if you think
Speaker 3:<laugh>
Speaker 2:The people who are making decisions for our community, have anything figured out, um, you are sorely, um, afraid, mistaken. I think, you know, it's in 10 years I've realized like, and it doesn't make anybody a bad per you know, I'm not saying they're like deliberately, um, negligent, but you know, now that I know people in places of power, they're just as like they're
Speaker 1:Human
Speaker 2:Searching, they're searching for the right way to do things all the time. Like they don't know<laugh> yeah. A lot of the time. And that's why it's so important to have people, um, who are humble, who are like still asking questions. Yeah. Um, because they'll go and talk to people that are smarter than them such as the community<laugh> yeah. You know,<laugh> um, and I think that's, that's um, I would tell her, you know, that actual, that's actually your strength, the fact that you don't think, you know, everything is actually, what's gonna make you really good at helping other people. Um, so like lean into that sister, you know, I think that's what I would tell her.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's wonderful. All right. So here are the two silly questions.
Speaker 2:Oh, I think. Okay.
Speaker 1:Oh no, that was just that, um, two silly questions and the ask words here. So silly, quick, first question is what is your astrology sign? And do you resonate with it?
Speaker 2:Sagitarius and I don't, I don't know if I know a lot about it.
Speaker 1:Well, let's just say the Sagitarius is the most philosophical side on the Zodiac.
Speaker 2:Oh yes.
Speaker 3:<laugh><laugh> sounds right. Sounds about right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No, I'm a sad too. I'm biased. Yeah.<laugh> That's awesome. And then the second one is if you had a power animal, what would it be?
Speaker 2:A power animal? Mm-hmm
Speaker 1:<affirmative> any kinda animal animal. Like
Speaker 3:If I
Speaker 2:Was one or if I own, or like,
Speaker 1:Or you could see one, like, you know, that, that gives you power and it doesn't have to be real. Right. It could be a made up animal, like, you know, I've had people say dragons, unicorns, but you know, that's kind of thing. You know what
Speaker 2:I'm really into owls right now. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Love vows. I, I think there's one in my back tree that's, uh, that's been, uh, Ling, I guess.<laugh>
Speaker 3:And
Speaker 2:Um, it's really soothing and they, they also seem so smart and like fairly cute. They're not the cute all the
Speaker 3:Birds, but that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. That's true. They, I think the little POY ones, little, little ones with the big eyes, like those ones are a little bit cute. Yeah. Um, but<laugh>
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You're like, no, there's still cute of birds out there. Um<laugh> and so, yeah. So here's your last words? Uh, let us know any organizations you were working with, any kind of projects, you know, whatever you are doing in the community, where can we find you? This is your times. Just let me give me a thumbs up when you're done. Just go, go crazy.
Speaker 2:Sure. Well, Hey, I just Thomas, I wanna thank you again for, for chatting with me and it's really nice to meet you and I love your podcast. I've been listening for a little bit. Oh,
Speaker 1:Thank you. So
Speaker 3:It
Speaker 2:Is it's special. It really is like kind of a, a pinching myself moment of like, oh, this is a podcast I used to listen to.<laugh>
Speaker 3:It's kinda fun.
Speaker 2:Um, and then, you know, just anyone who's listening to this, um, you know, I just, I wanna wish you all. Well, I know times are really tough right now. Um, and so if you ever need like, you know, help plugging into resources or, you know, navigating whatever's going on, especially around the crisis, um, I wanna urge you to, to reach out to me. Um, I'm pretty plugged into a lot of the mutual aid support systems that are here in our community. Um, and I also work in the nonprofit sector. So, um, I guess, uh, I will leave my email if that's cool. Yeah, that's
Speaker 3:Great.
Speaker 2:Okay. So, so, uh, Kayla Kumar, one gmail.com. Um, maybe it will be print, you know, the spelling will be printed somewhere in the post. I'm not gonna go do that, but please reach out to, to me if you need, um, support with anything as far as you know, where you go find me right now. Um, you know, especially after the campaign, there is so much momentum and energy, especially, you know, this, this kind of emerging, um, force in our community of young bipo, um, you know, uh, economically of different classes, um, progressive, uh, force, you know, here in Santa Cruz. And we're like, okay, now what, you know, we learned a lot of solid lessons from the campaign and we're not even close to being done just cuz the campaign's over. We're just getting started. You know, so, so I think, um, you know, one, one direction I have gone, uh, is into housing. Housing's a really passionate, um, polarizing difficult situation here in our community. We are the fifth most expensive place to live in the world. Um, and, and I submit to everyone that that is cause progressive P uh, policies have not been embraced in this community for the, the better part longer than a decade. I would say we're getting close to two now. Um, and so, um, one way that that I'm finding, uh, my place in the solution making process is through the coastal commons land trust. It is a housing land trust that sets out to increase the amount of actually affordable housing in our community. That's C that's community owned, um, and is held in that affordable place in perpetuity. So for forever it's a deed, um, deep, you know, uh, investment in affordability in our community. And it's not reliant on these kind of, you know, more conservative, trickle down housing philosophies. If you just build a lot of high priced condos and then throw in a few of the affordable ones, um, you know, within the, the building itself will somehow get us out of this huge mess that we're in. So was people that don't really that understand that's, um, doesn't make any sense. Land trusts are a really good way to, to come from the ground up. Yeah. Instead of trickling down, um, community own com community led, um, housing. And so, um, another thing that I'm really involved in and passionate about is youth justice, juvenile justices, as it's otherwise called. There's a big, um, shift that's happening at the state level, SB 8 23, um, which closed DJ J, which is the, basically the youth state prison. And, um, you know, there is a decarceration movement that's very strong in California of which I'm apart. And, um, uh, you that's coming down the pipe to Santa Cruz county right now. I'm really, um, interested in making sure that we do have, um, services for young people that, um, are, would otherwise be system involved who have been incarcerated, but still need community support. They need services. They a lot do folks, um, of the young people coming down have, you know, what we might consider mental health issues. Um, and so I'm still, I wanna see those needs actually met<laugh>, you know, and, and, and so, um, really thinking about how we can bring in, um, professionals who can do that work that are from the communities that, that a lot of these youth are from that's unfortunately here in Santa Cruz, because of the racism that pervades our, our justice system, um, almost double, um, disproportionate towards Latino, Latinx, young people. Um, so we need more of the as organizations, those leaders, as people that can provide those services, um, that are relevant and, you know, um, linguistically capable of, of bridging, uh, language divides, all that stuff. So, um, with that, and also, you know, really concerned about, um, the practice of SROs at schools and, uh, currently on a learning tour about trying to underst why we still do that here. Um, that was recently a practice that was removed from, uh, south county, P V U S D the, the largest school district in our, in our county. Um, so I'm still confused as to why, um, north county is, is still so invested in the practice, even though it's been thoroughly debunked. Um, but you know, I think I have a lot to learn about how P how, um, you know, teachers and parents and, um, everybody else, all those stakeholders are holding onto it. And why, like we talked about, like, I'd like to understand, um, why not necessarily just bring the hammer down, so to speak<laugh> so, but, you know, it's, it's a practice that I don't, I don't think serves young people. So, so I wanna be clear about that too. Um, so, you know, I think, uh,<laugh>, I think I can, I can leave it there. You know, I work on the board of Suffolk part of Hede, which is a healthcare clinic out in south county, doing incredible, unbelievable. Just you wouldn't believe the amount of work and risk and, um, um, life that the, the people who work at Sal par of the, he, they are giving to our community through healthcare. Um, so I'm just, I'm so proud of, of salute and, and, um, so grateful to them and, uh, you know, they're getting vaccinations out. I wanna also invite folks to, um, connect with that, that important, uh, healthcare resource as well. So I think, I think we're getting around, um, yeah, we're
Speaker 1:Not gonna wrap it up over there. We're there, but Kayla Kumar, thank you so much for coming on. It, it was, it was a, it was truly an honor and you're inspiring and motivating and, uh, I'll, I'll put the links sent me in the, in the description so people can find you or email you or whatever, if they're listening to this episode, make it easy for'em. Oh, and again, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Thomas, thank you so much for, for everything that you're doing, all of the, the narrative that you're putting out into the world and the stories that you're making sure heard, um, through your work. So very, very grateful to you and, and I wish, you know, take good care and I wish the same for everybody else listening.
Speaker 1:Mm. Thank you so much. Or
Speaker 2:Next time
Speaker 1:<laugh> yeah, next time. Yeah. This, this has been, uh, speak for
Speaker 6:Change podcast. I'm your host, Thomas H. Patterson have a wonderful.