About Episode
As the sun sets on Ellen Primack's storied career at the Cabrillo Festival of Contemporary Music, she graces us with her profound insights into the festival's tapestry, woven with innovation and community spirit.
Reflecting on her 32-year tenure, Ellen opens up about the festival's metamorphosis from its bohemian inception to a bastion of contemporary composition; a journey marked by the birth of new music and the nurturing of artistic careers.
Our conversation traverses the festival's pivotal moments, understanding its heartbeat through the shared passions and collective efforts that have solidified its place in Santa Cruz's cultural landscape.
Ellen and I cast a light on the transformative power of music, especially poignant during times of adversity like the recent pandemic. The festival's ability to reconnect and reinvigorate not only musicians but also the community at large stands as a testament to its foundational role within the arts.
As Ellen speaks of the festival's impact, it's clear that it transcends the stage, embedding itself in the personal narratives of those it touches, inspiring growth, and defining careers.
The finale of our dialogue with Ellen unveils a vision for the future, one where the baton of leadership is passed to invigorate the next wave of artistic directors and community leaders.
About Episode
As the sun sets on Ellen Primack's storied career at the Cabrillo Festival of Contemporary Music, she graces us with her profound insights into the festival's tapestry, woven with innovation and community spirit.
Reflecting on her 32-year tenure, Ellen opens up about the festival's metamorphosis from its bohemian inception to a bastion of contemporary composition; a journey marked by the birth of new music and the nurturing of artistic careers.
Our conversation traverses the festival's pivotal moments, understanding its heartbeat through the shared passions and collective efforts that have solidified its place in Santa Cruz's cultural landscape.
Ellen and I cast a light on the transformative power of music, especially poignant during times of adversity like the recent pandemic. The festival's ability to reconnect and reinvigorate not only musicians but also the community at large stands as a testament to its foundational role within the arts.
As Ellen speaks of the festival's impact, it's clear that it transcends the stage, embedding itself in the personal narratives of those it touches, inspiring growth, and defining careers.
The finale of our dialogue with Ellen unveils a vision for the future, one where the baton of leadership is passed to invigorate the next wave of artistic directors and community leaders.
Hi, welcome back to Speak for Change, Thomas Sage-Petterson, here. This episode is part of an ongoing series highlighting the musicians, composers and other team members that are part of the Cabrio Festival of Contemporary Music community here in Sanctuary's, California. I hope you enjoy today's episode and have a wonderful day, Alright. Today's guest is Ellen Primaek, former executive director of 32 years at the Cabrio Festival of Contemporary Music. Now she serves as an executive advisor for the same festival and she works as a freelance consultant. This episode was really exciting because I recorded it near Ellen's transition from her role as an executive director to executive advisor and consultant after 32 years of dedicating her life to the Cabrio Festival of Contemporary Music. So you know her history is tied into that history. So this is a really interesting episode. I really enjoyed it and I hope you do too. Alright, have a good one, Ellen. Welcome to Speak for Change podcast. It's all to have you on.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much, Thomas. I'm happy to be here with you.
Speaker 1:Oh man. So I'm glad we finally get to chat. I know we've chatted before, but I'm glad we get to chat on the podcast.
Speaker 2:I welcome it anytime with you. You're fun to talk to.
Speaker 1:Thank you. So I mean you're retiring, or I don't know if that's the right word. Is that transition in here? Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yes, I'm actually not retiring from work life. I'm stepping down from my executive director of Cabrio Festival. I'll continue to consult with the festival and then build my own consulting business in the arts and in the community. I hope.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. So we'll touch base on that soon. But I kind of want to just you are the person to talk to about the festival, I mean really, and so I just really want to, just for our listeners who don't know anything about Cabrio Festival. I mean, like, a lot of times when I talk to people about Cabrio contemporary music festival, they always look at me like, oh, I love Cabrio, you know, and so they always associated with the school. So was there any kind of association with the school?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. There were a group of very forward thinking musical community people, including Lou Harrison and Bob Hughes, who came to study with Lou Harrison, who kind of convened around the sticky wicket coffee house and created these bohemian events and saw music and community in a really open and engaged and adventurous way and that attracted. As I understand it I was not around in the early 60s here in Apdoss and Santa Cruz it was a time when Cabrio College was opening and there was a group of community members, including Alice Vestal and college professors at Cabrio who championed this notion of having a music festival, a music festival that was doing orchestral music, classical works and contemporary works and being something different and engaging in the community. And so shortly after the college opened, so too did then what was called the Cabrio Guild of Music, I believe, and took place at the college. And it did take place at the college, supported in different levels in terms of administrative directorship by the college.
Speaker 2:But when Proposition 13 happened, that was the end of any financial underpinning and then with, I believe, the Cabrio stage, then the venue changed and then with the earthquake, the administrative office has changed and so over time any affiliation with the college itself has just diminished, but Cabrio Festival of Contemporary Music has been around since the 60s. We celebrated our 61st anniversary this year. We are a private nonprofit organization, our offices are downtown and our home has been since 1991, the Santa Cruz Civic Auditorium.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you don't really have any ties to Cabrio anymore. Really.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I think that's been the biggest confusion for folks when talking to them about the festival. So what is the festival now Like? What is it for people who don't know, and what is contemporary music? Right?
Speaker 2:Right, what is?
Speaker 1:contemporary music.
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting because Cabrio Festival was born from a grassroots, very community-oriented place and I feel one of the things I think we can be proud of it is very much maintained, that sense of community and connection here, and really is made possible by this incredibly adventurous, open-minded, welcoming, generous community that we have here in Santa Cruz County. And Cabrio Festival is the longest running festival dedicated to new music for orchestra in the country, if not the world, and it has a national and international reputation. We attract orchestral players, musicians from across the nation who come really as volunteers to play new music that they wouldn't get to play elsewhere, at the highest level, with an extraordinary music director and conductor, cristi Machilaru, and many amazing people before him, including Maranel Sop, james Russell, davies, gerhard, samuel. So what has distinguished us really really, really uniquely since 2000 is we had been doing contemporary music and by that I mean the work of living composers of our time for orchestra, and we had been doing that since the start. But it was in the midst of other war horses and classical works that people recognized and in 2000. After some experimentation, marin realized that our strength and where we really shined and distinguished ourselves in the world of music was the new works and the contemporary works by living composers, not just 20th and 21st century work, but rather when we became a composer's festival, when we had not just one or two composers in residence but seven, nine, eleven, fourteen composers in residence and then that art form got to be so dynamic.
Speaker 2:I mean that is what distinguishes the festival experientially is the dynamics of composers, the conductors, players, sculpting a work in real time, new work in real time, bringing it to life with the same fervor, excitement and passion that people come to other music, an audience that is as fascinated by the creative process and their own influence on it by virtue of being there in the excitement of it, really knowing that they have a role in it. That kind of feeds this incredibly energetic experience that feels warm, it feels adventurous, it feels welcoming and everybody has a place in it. I mean our musicians and all of the guests, guest artists, internationally renowned guest artists and composers stay in homes with community members. I mean it is an act of the whole thing is like this act of generosity. We talk about this. Our economy is one of generosity and giving and unusual and sets the tone for who we are and how people engage. Yeah, so it's two weeks at the Santa Cruz Civic Auditorium that we open the doors to rehearsals, to talks, to the process itself and then spectacular performances.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think the Cabrillo Festival personally shifted my life in a way that I would have never foreseen. I remember being like 21 years old and volunteering with the seats and helping people sit and stuff and composing at the same time with our little group of students, student staff program, student staff program.
Speaker 1:I just remember seeing Mason Bates and seeing all these modern composers. I never heard anything like that before in my life. I was studying music and in Santa Cruz they don't really do or at least in the time when I was studying they don't really do a good job at promoting new music. You were studying the old Bach, beethoven and studying, and I was studying classical theory, jazz theory, all this stuff, but it wasn't that much focus on new music, and so I think when I got introduced to the festival through one of my ex-girlfriends, it was a shock, to be honest, because at that time I was going with my grandfather. We would go see orchestra performances over the hill together.
Speaker 1:It was like a thing we would do, because he would do it with my grandma but she passed away. I would end up going with him because he knew that I would like it more than other folks. I guess I loved that a special place for orchestral music. And so when I remember seeing Mason Bates play and hearing the electronics mixed with the orchestra and all these, and then Thomas Newman, like someone who's known for soundtrack work and I can't name off all the composers for that specific season it just shifted my perspective and gave me hope a little bit. For music we can do something.
Speaker 1:And throughout the years, going to random shows, every show I feel like I leave with some kind of new message. I think the last show, regretfully, was before COVID, not this season but the, and it was with, I remember this composer. He said something that really spoke to the heart and actually probably inspired me more than I would like to admit. He was saying that he almost gave up on music or something because of all the political things that were happening and it felt trivial and I was going through a similar phase in my life and the piece he played was crazy. He had people playing Styrofoam.
Speaker 2:You remember that, I know exactly who you're talking about and what you're talking about?
Speaker 1:Who am I talking about? Do you remember this thing?
Speaker 2:He has wild up and I'm sorry I'm spacing on the name because that doesn't do him justice, but I will remind you that Because I'm about to cry thinking about it. He was commissioned to do that work for us and that night was around Charleston and that was the context and one of the things about the festival that makes it so profound and it's an interesting. There's something. There's just such a dichotomy. We should relate to people making music in our time because it reflects our lives and who we are.
Speaker 2:And we are drawn perhaps more to the familiar and that which comes easier to us. And yet, when you come to the festival, you feel the humanity, you get to see the people, they get to tell their stories, and so then you can have an experience like that, where not only was it about his music, but it was about and he was writing it from a dark time.
Speaker 2:He was writing it from a dark time, that piece, and then we were living in a dark time in that piece and then he was able to share that with an audience who could find solace or inspiration, or hope or whatever which you are a testimonial to.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't know if any of this would have. It's the small things. It's the small things that really shift at the time. Obviously, a lot of this affects me as a black man, but also as a human being, but I was trying to be more politically engaged. I was running a music school for some years. Then I was just like I need to be involved, I need to do something. I need to do something else. This isn't enough.
Speaker 1:And then he spoke directly to that, and so I think that night I was just confused in a good way in a transitional way, and it's things like that, little moments like that, that I think people don't, that people take for granted in our society, in our life, where that was transformative, just seeing the piece, hearing the dissonance, hearing all that really reflective of what he was talking about. And so I guess it's just. This festival is such a revolutionary thing in my opinion, because I remember listening in music history class, right, and it was about Because I just assumed for some reason that people always listen to like old music, right, like unless you were like in Beethoven's time or Bach's time, but I, you know, it turns out like people didn't really play Bach's music or, you know, these people's music.
Speaker 1:They were contemporary ones right, right, they, you know, and like they didn't repeat, right, bach wasn't discovered till 100 years after his death. You know, same with the faulty, same with all these. You know, you know Baroque composers, right, and when they discovered Bach's manuscripts? Because Bach was known as like a teacher, educator and like a choir director and a master improviser, but he wasn't known as a composer, really, until 100 years after his death. Right, I just my mind, just right.
Speaker 1:And so what happened? And other people in that time, 100 years after, were like, oh wow, there's treasure trove of music. But I guess ever since that time they had been just playing new music the whole time, right, until they realized that there was like a treasure trove of music from a time period that they missed. And then they started playing and then we kind of stuck in that tradition. And so I think it's beautiful seeing this, where it's like you guys are single-handedly like keeping up this tradition of living composers and you know, I don't know if many of my listeners have actually listened to like an orchestra in person, but it's intense, you know.
Speaker 2:It's like it's powerful you know it is powerful, it's a spectacular instrument.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and so I think it's just beautiful what you're doing and all the beautiful things, and I don't necessarily recommend everyone keep going to the festival. If you haven't gone, you should just go, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, and I think there's a sense of discovery. I mean, the festival makes it easy just to explore, because you can come into an open rehearsal, you can walk out if you don't like it, and we joke that it's the gateway drug, because once you see it, once you understand, once you get your ears attuned to it, once you see the energy that's in the room with artists, it's pretty irresistible. Then you want to come to the concert too and you want to be part of the community and what we? You know our challenge is just getting people in the door and fortunately we've done a pretty good job of that too, and this community has been incredibly supportive.
Speaker 2:The musicians one of the things that distinguishes the festival and the community helps us support is that we are not just about the audience. We are as much about the composers and the artists and we help them build their careers. We help them have their voice be heard, we help them get a step in and have opportunities and build their careers, and that is equally important in this community. It helps make that possible in that context. So, yeah, we play a lot of roles in that way and it's just, it's really joyful, it's really fine work and I'll confess to you, you know just as you had your moments of wondering during the pandemic.
Speaker 2:It was really hard to find meaning. And you know, cabrillo Festival does amazing things and we did incredible work online and yet keeping everybody connected felt challenging, beyond challenging. And then, when we came back, any doubts I had about meaning or purpose or value out the door, because it was so clear when everybody was back together how powerful we were in people's lives and keeping it going, and everybody who steps in the room is part of that. That's. I think one of the things that we're able to do is recognize that none of us none of us, not me as executive director none of us makes this thing happen by ourselves. This is, this is like the epitome of, like a utopian, communal kind of engagement, and we get to be this special little place for the special couple of weeks where people come together with joy and spirit and open mind to hear new stories, hear new sounds, be together in something that feels positive and meaningful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, man, and I think you know you were speaking on how this was for a lot for the musicians and the composers, and I think that that is so clear, especially with a lot of people talking about your specific impact at the end of that last show, and I mean throughout the whole season actually, and it becomes pretty clear that it's the musicians are super happy. You know, I mean I've interviewed a couple and you know I've talked to a few and the composers are same. Like the composer just like stoked, right, they're just like my compositions get to be played by this amazing orchestra, right. And the musicians are just like having a grand time. You know, they're just it's like summer camp for you know, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:Summer camp where you come to learn 17 new works that are as hard as anything you'll ever play in your career, but play with such great players who are equally committed so that you can play at the top of your game. And what we hear over and over again is that I leave here a better player than I came.
Speaker 1:And you have. Can you not right, right, right?
Speaker 2:right. So I mean that in and of itself. Yeah, what incredible thing. And for a lot of people, a lot of players, you know, we get to be this special place, so we recognize that we are unique in that way. In their lives. They're not making a lot of money here. They're not worrying about you know all of the chores they have to do in their house.
Speaker 2:You know, it's what has that too, but it has um. It gives them juice for the rest of the year, it reminds them why they became musicians, and I have heard over and over again what a kind of artistic refueling station this is, and so that's really it's not right. So it's so important for them. But see, we all get to bask in that place. You know, like where people are being so stoked and so happy. Like how many places in our world does do we get to be in community around that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there is not many and definitely as special as this. I could be speaking biasly as a musician, obviously, but like you know, I think it's it's spot on. But we're going to go on a little transition here and we're going to kind of put the spot right now on you. She cringes, yeah right.
Speaker 2:It's not about me. It's never been about me.
Speaker 1:But okay, so now you're moving into consulting land and the arts and I know you have a bunch of fun ideas and so I'm just, you know, curious like what do you see for your future in the consulting world or the engaging with the community, and definitely the arts, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I have ideas that for me, looking as all promise and possibility ahead, trying not to be scared by uncertainty, there's nothing to be scared about. I have these incredible opportunities, first and foremost, still working with Cabrillo Festival and my successor, riley Nicholson, and the board so that this is a smooth transition in a, you know, after a very long term tenure, and I have every sense of excitement and and hopefulness around that. So I'm looking forward to learning how to play a different kind of role, a partnership, transitioning from that leader role to mentor, support, counsel, that kind of thing, so that there's learning in that for me and I'm excited about that. There's also a sense that I've, I have pride in the festival and organization that's been built most deeply around the sense of community and connection and team that's created, and so I think there are ways in which I hope I can support other leaders in the community as a thought partner as as a sounding board to talk about how to build teams, how to build a culture that puts people first, that is mission driven, values based, that enables people to stay on course because they understand what they're working toward, and that sense of purpose and mastery.
Speaker 2:And also I love fundraising, I love connecting with patrons. I feel deeply excited about the role of fundraising and donor relations in the health being. People find their mission by way of an organization's mission and doing that, matchmaking and so helping leaders create plans where they can connect more deeply and meaningfully with philanthropists to hear those stories, to incorporate those stories, to give a sense of reward and connection and and I can strategize around I know how to strategize around those things fairly well so that people come out. You know, in the best-case scenario people feel like they've been given the greatest gift of their life by virtue of giving something to the organization. They walk away feeling like it's so reciprocal, it's so rewarding. So I think if we get to those authentic places of knowing who we are, what we need to do and bringing people on board who will find meaning in that, then you know sky's the limit in some ways.
Speaker 1:Man, that's beautiful and you know. With that in mind, what would you say? Is your I don't know like a vision for the arts community in Santa Cruz right? Like you know, because you're talking about, you know getting in there and just like doing the work, you have like kind of an overall vision of like what would be like the best, like you could be idealistic, you know whatever, but like you know what would be the best view of Santa Cruz in your perspective?
Speaker 2:Well, one of the projects that I really want to work on and that Santa Cruz has a history of is connectedness between arts organizations and sense of cohort and community, and through the pandemic and leadership changes, some of that has fallen away and I feel like I had this enormous benefit throughout my career literally throughout my career, and not just locally but more broadly of having people who were working in this field, people who felt like my tribe, who got it, who had the same challenges and same sense of overwhelm at times or isolation at times when we put our head down and we're working so hard in smaller organizations to be able to lift your head and turn to someone who's right down the street or in the corner, can go to Abbott Square and meet with you and say I'm struggling with this or I had this triumph, or be in a larger group where everybody talks about what they're doing, and then in a place like Santa Cruz that has this deep artistic ferment and artists who can't not create and create this, that there's inspiration from that, that, that alone, being able to be in community with that and understand that other people are having the struggles and doing this incredible work.
Speaker 2:So I would like to see in Santa Cruz, just a kind of. There's a new generation of leaders, and I don't want them to be alone in this. There's also a younger generation that, generally speaking, from everything I read, is of fairly lonely, and building community and the arts offer the greatest avenue toward that, and then if we can join forces, all the better. So, whatever shortcomings I have or strengths I have, I have a bit of, I got a little bit of history and knowing that building community or connecting with people is something that I've figured out a little bit about across generations, across, you know, from donors to staff, to seasonal staff, to production, to artists, to composers, to music. You know, like it's about the universality about that. It's about who we want to be as people. It's about creating the world we want to live in. Like I feel like I might be able to help people create the world they want to live in.
Speaker 1:That's so beautiful and you know you mentioned, you know, when we were talking at Abbott Square a few days ago, right, which I thought was really beautiful. You mentioned how you get it, how to be with people, and I guess that like just be, you know, in community with one another, and hearing you talk right now I resonate really deeply because I feel, like you know, I could ask a lot of like what I do, you know, and I think it's always hard for me to answer that question because I feel, like a lot of times, it's just being with people, you know, and it's just like showing up and being in community, and I think that's like a very like you were saying, an underrated ability, right, you know, being able to just sit with with people, be with people and without like even like a really strong purpose, like the purpose is to be you know, with one another and I think there's something really beautiful about that.
Speaker 1:I was wondering if you could speak on that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's interesting because I I would say that on some level, I'm socially awkward and self-conscious. The role I think I've found for myself is kind of. It's weird, but hostess, I like it when we're speaking in most poetic terms about our work, my work, our work, the Cabrillo Festival it's preparing the sacred ground for the artist to come and make their magic. I don't do that. I don't make that, I make the space for that, and so I think, in terms of these cohorts or anything, having goal listen, we have goals. We create an incredible event and do amazing work, and I've done that in different arenas but there's also something about creating the space for people to be in community together and just allow them to create the conditions that allowed them then to go and have all the ideas about the doing. But it's the creating the space and introducing people and the matchmaking and the facilitating that happening. That I think I have some ability to do and it really it isn't about me, it's about connecting all the dots. It's about that and I do think, as you say and as we were talking, if getting everybody together is all about an end goal, then you, rather than I, need to just I need to be in space with people who inspire me or to hear new things. If you've decided what the end goal is before you've gotten into space with people, you limit what the opportunities are for discovering what you really should be doing together or what you really want to do or who you really wanna sit next to and create a friendship with.
Speaker 2:And I felt like in my career that the cohorts I had some with very defined outcomes and some without were the places where I met my best friends and I created my social life and my partners in arts and those collaborations. So, yeah, I think we're siloed with our, with our technology and in our spaces and remote. And, if nothing else, is an example of that, the Cabrillo Festival, where you put all that down and then listen to music for hours. And oh, I'm gonna forget the name because I wanna quote somebody who was up at the university and I'm spacing on the name right now, but she said that everybody's trying to find themselves when in fact, what they need to do and want to do is lose themselves. It's when you lose yourself in music or in a dance performance or in the arts that you feel most whole and happy and connected to self right. So those are the spaces that we need to put ourselves in, and that's about just being in some ways and opening to the possibility.
Speaker 1:Right, I mean it's interesting like losing yourself to be more in touch with yourself, right, like what a paradox. And but at the same time it makes complete sense because you know it's you know a lot of like Buddhist thought and a lot of other thought of like the ego and not being self, not self or whatever you wanna call it, I don't know it does allow for these moments of understanding the connectedness between everybody. You know, like on a feeling level, you know, not just on an intellectual, we're all connected level. But you know, I think that's one of the benefits of you know what you're saying being in community with each other is seeing art that allows us to just relax that part of ourselves for like a second, if we let it, if we allow ourselves to be vulnerable enough to be able to do that right and transform. And that's when change happens.
Speaker 1:I think, like you know when, in the beginning of this conversation, when I mentioned that event with the styrofoam in the bow, I had that moment where I kind of lost sense of like. You know I related. But like, within the music you get if you let yourself get lost in it, it feels uncomfortable when you can come back because you're like oh, what was I doing? You know, you kind of get self conscious, but you know, practicing, letting go like that allows for connection, allows for, you know, maybe even being bold, maybe talking to that person you wanna talk to, and the community, you know, allows you to be humble you know, and I think that is just a beautiful statement.
Speaker 1:And, man, I would love to see a world like that. You know more of that.
Speaker 2:Well, and we're lucky because in Santa Cruz we have more of an opportunity than many places. We have such a rich artistic community on so many levels. No matter what your interest is I mean no matter what your interest is in the arts or in collecting textiles or, in Vietnamese, like everything, everything you can find it here, and that's one of the reasons people are drawn here and we talked about that the other day is that, more so than any other place I've been, there's an intentionality about choosing this place, this place to make home, as hard as it is for some people, this place to make home, this place to make community, this gorgeous landscape that we are privileged to be within and from that create. You know, it's a wellspring of creativity and connection, and so we yeah, we get to build that world in some ways.
Speaker 1:Man that's. I mean. I love Santa Cruz.
Speaker 1:You know it's hard to live here but you know it's worth it to me and I think you know I've been a lot of people who do all work here, but they're, you know they want to leave, you know, and I get it, because it's hard to live here and you know some circles I hang out with you know they see the lack of diversity around Santa Cruz and so there's a lot of things that are wrong quote unquote, you know. But I also see, like, the deep love and community here. I think one of the things that really was really beautiful for me to see I think it was like definitely with the Cabrillo Festival is that sometimes, you know, I think as a consultant, you know I always kind of like are looking for the things that the cracks in the building. You know I'm always looking for what is wrong. You know what, what can we tweak, what can we change? You know, it's just like the natural ability.
Speaker 1:But I think what happened at Cabrillo Festival and then what happened at this fundraiser I recently went to, was I saw, like at Cabrillo Festival I saw the beautiful community that is there. You know that exists there and that is there. You know that exists there and that the people there are just so in love with this music and so in love with the space and they just it's. And this is echoed by the interview I did with Teagan Farron and just seeing, like, the love that these people have and the people who are hosting these musicians are just so proud and they're good members, like a lot of these members, and I didn't even know who I know personally, but I had no idea they hosted musicians every year. You know, no idea. You know, like Chimuel, right, the host of the musician he hosted, I think Carlos and his home and I was just like you host these musicians.
Speaker 1:He's like, yeah, you know, we do it every year and I'm like man, it was just so surprising, you know, in my head and I think seeing the beauty that has been built by you and the community is just beautiful to see. And then, you know, with the fundraiser, I thought it was really interesting because I was in this space where, you know, like a lot of these spaces where it was a lot of a lot of like one demographic, a lot of white folks, a lot of you know, over the age of you know, I don't even know, but you know where I feel kind of isolated sometimes, you know. And so, yeah, I was just amazed by the questions they were asking this political candidate and they were very reflective of what questions, like I would ask or the people who I, like my community, would ask and I thought that gave a lot of hope, because I've been to one of these things like years ago and it wasn't that way.
Speaker 1:It was very disconnected.
Speaker 2:That's good to hear. Yeah, and so.
Speaker 1:I was impressed. I thought, you know, I was like wow, these are really thoughtful questions. These are people are recognizing that there's an issue. These are the issues you know. And I thought that was a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1:So it just, you know, crushes all my assumptions and humbles me again and so you know, but I appreciate this community even more now that I'm, you know, going into these spaces. But I kind of transition here a little bit. We have a few minutes left and I just want to have a. I have these kind of stock questions, general questions, and see the answers are do you have any quotes that you live by or think of often?
Speaker 2:Yes, I have a lot of quotes and good luck to me if I can remember them right now you can get the gist.
Speaker 2:One is one that I'd say a lot is that disappointment is the result of poorly managed expectations.
Speaker 2:So you know, I use that a lot in the work mode as being candid with people about what you expect of them, being clear, because nobody wants to disappoint you and you want to set people up for success rather than failure.
Speaker 2:You want to set up an audience knowing what they're coming to and just all that kind of like understanding that we are engaged with other people around that and that we can make it more satisfying as long as everybody comes to the table having clear. Another thing that people used to ask me I've said it less of late, but my father used to say that success is the result of constancy of purpose and that doesn't mean that everything's static. But I would say that as somebody who's stepping down after 33 years at something that I'm pretty proud that I even in involving my own notions of the festival or its mission, that I decided in my 20s that I wanted to support living artists in their work and that I got this opportunity to do that, and I think there was just a real sense of a personal mission that kept me going and on course, and then a sense of achievement around that, and so it's not about being stuck in something, but there is something to be said about working at something really hard over time if you believe in it.
Speaker 1:Oh gut, hit right there, that's felt good. Yeah, that's so beautiful. I was going to ask what is success to you? And so I'm kind of curious is it connected to what you just said?
Speaker 2:Well, what is success to me? You know again about values and mission and all of that. We can say it's a reflective time for me, of course, and I was given a tremendous send off by everybody in this final season confetti and all pageantry and parade of roses and the whole thing, and I just had more love and appreciation than anyone could possibly deserve, but truly could possibly deserve. But I'll take it but success. If you come away having people think you're kind and loving you that's from a personal standpoint that felt like success.
Speaker 1:I love that. What advice would you give yourself and I'm going to customize this one 33 years ago, when you came in?
Speaker 2:Wow, what advice. Probably you know, fear of failure propelled me a lot. It wasn't always my friend. I think it was part of what helped me persevere and move forward and accomplish a lot of things. But if I was to support myself 33 years ago, or somebody younger, to figure out how not to let fear be so present in life, would it probably make things a little less stressful.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah, I think it's interesting. That reminds me of one of my life coaches told me he's like you know, I was telling you a similar fear-based mentality, and he was describing how we're like a spaceship right, and I thought this was a cool analogy. It takes all this rocket power to blast through the atmosphere, but once you pass the atmosphere they let go of the majority of that ship, that power, all that stuff, just to get out of the atmosphere. And after that they have to let it go or else they can't do their mission. And he was describing like, yes, this may have gotten you this far, fear may have gotten you this far, or fear of failure, you know, but there's a certain time when you have to just let that go.
Speaker 2:And I think that was a it just reminded me of that and I was like, oh man, that's so true.
Speaker 1:Alright, if you had a gift one book to somebody, what would it be?
Speaker 2:Well, it's so funny because it's quite literal at this point. So, as you well know, I had a work created in my honor this season, and it was by Anna Klein, and she asked me if there was a poem or a piece of art or something that was really seminal and important to me, and I said Mary Oliver's Wild Geese, which had a huge influence for me. And so this season I gifted about 45 copies of Mary Oliver's first volume of her works, and so I think there's great power in poetry and there are wise people who can help us navigate life with beauty and such. And so, yeah, that might. That's it right now. That's it right now. That's the book I've been given away, so funny.
Speaker 1:When I saw that on the program, that was the inspiration. My wife has these three geese on her side and it's because of that poem yeah, it's her favorite poem.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that it's like her only tattoo. She has two tattoos and that's the only two. That's like the one she got because she resonated so deeply with that poem before we met that's more than a decade ago and she had to think about. She wants the whole poem, but she can remember that that's the poem. She's a big Mary Oliver fan so when I saw that in the program I was like it brought back. It really did have a profound effect.
Speaker 2:So I was like man this is perfect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, All right. So here are the two silly questions at the end here. The first one, which I've kind of already asked you, but I'm going to ask you again what is your astrology sign and do you resonate with it?
Speaker 2:I'm jammin', I and yeah, I think so. I think almost in every question that's posed to me. I got one identity on one shoulder going well, if you look at it this way, and. I got one on the other shoulder and I don't know a lot about it. You know that, but I think, yeah, I kind of resonate with it.
Speaker 1:And the second question is if you had a power animal or an animal that inspired power in you, what would that be?
Speaker 2:Oh wow, I might be stuck.
Speaker 1:I might be made up to Power animal?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I'm just seeing bunnies in my brain. I'm just I'm like looking off. I'm like I just talked about seeing bunnies at a Cillimar the other day and there was just something so charming and kind and approachable. And I don't know that that's who I am at all, but if I had that power to be, then sure I'll pick a bunny.
Speaker 1:Oh man, yeah, I asked Adam Sadberry that same question and without a beat, without a second thought, he just he was like, without me even having to preface that you can make up an animal, by the way, it was just like an animal that gives you. And he immediately was like a mixture between an otter and a lion. Like just boom. Boom, yeah, I was like that is a very interesting. I think there's a lot of inspiration with the A41 otter around here. I think you know.
Speaker 2:That's a little more menacing than I am.
Speaker 1:No, but I love the rabbit. I have a lot of. I see them all the time on my drive home. They're beautiful. Well, here's your last words, so you can just tell us whatever you want. So you can tell us, like, where people can find you, how can they contact you, like what. Any last words of wisdom, it's just your time, so feel free to say whatever you like.
Speaker 2:Very sweet, thank you, I would say. I would use my time to invite people to explore the Cabrillo Festival. We're on the radio coming up at KLW is going to broadcast our concerts and then we'll be back here next summer at the Santa Cruz Civic Auditorium and give the gift to yourself of just opening your heart and your mind and walk in and explore that. And in terms of me, ellen Pramak, you know, if you're in the arts, you can continue to contact me for a while through the Cabrillo Festival and I like being a thought partner, I like my arts colleagues, I feel bound and committed and so, if I can help, holler, Ellen, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1:Speak for Change. It was an honor to have you on.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thomas. It's an honor to get to know you more and I very much admire you, so thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Oh man, feeling is completely mutual. This has been Speak for Change Podcast. I'm your host, thomas Sage Pedersen. Thank you so much for listening and have a wonderful day.