Ep. 136 Nic Stone Exploring the Power of Humanity, Storytelling and so much more with

Have you ever contemplated the potency of a well-written novel or the impact of a compelling story? Join us as we tap into the power of literature with none other than New York Times bestselling author, Nic Stone. We dive deep into the world of young adult literature, discussing the need for representation, and the importance of highlighting human experiences. Stone shares her spiritual journey and how she views the impact of her work.She also unveils her unique approach to capturing the essence of human experiences in her writing.

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http://www.instagram.com/nicstone
About Nic Stone
Nic Stone is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of Dear Martin, the novel that launched her career in 2017 and encourages readers of all ages to examine the biases in their own lives and to have honest discussions about race in today’s world.  Nic’s mission is to create books and stories that speak to kids underrepresented in YA literature today—and her aim is to not only create windows in which young people are introduced to new perspectives but also mirrors in which children see their experiences and identities fully represented. Born and raised in a suburb of Atlanta, GA, Nic grew up with a wide range of cultures, religions, and backgrounds, and constantly strives to bring diverse voices and stories to her work. All of her novels have been widely embraced by teens and adults and have been the recipients of numerous accolades, awards and starred reviews. In addition to Dear Martin, her books include Dear Justyce, Blackout, Whiteout, and middle-grade novel, Clean Getaway, all New York Times bestsellers, Odd One Out, Jackpot, the Shuri (Black Panther) novels, How to Be a (Young) Antiracist as well as Fast Pitch. Her next YA novel, Chaos Theory, will be published on February 28, 2023. A Spelman College graduate, Nic lives in Atlanta with her family. Find her online at nicstone.info or @nicstone.

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Transcript

Thomas: 0:11

Welcome back to Speak for Change podcast. I'm your host, Tom Asage-Peterson. Our mission is to inspire and create positive and lasting change in our local and global communities. We broadcast from the Tannery Art Center in Santa Cruz, California. I hope you enjoy the episode of Speak for Change podcast. Have a beautiful and impactful day.

Nic: 0:37

Hey y'all, welcome back. Our guest today is Nick Stone. This conversation was so much fun. I had such a great time talking with Nick Stone. You'll notice a lot of laughter in our conversation this time around, but if you didn't know, nick is a number one New York Times bestselling author of Dear Martin, which I have heard so many beautiful things about from so many colleagues of mine, and it really does amplify her mission, which is to create books and stories that speak to kids underrepresented in young adult literature today.

Nic: 1:17

This episode was really fun because we covered so many different topics like spirituality, humanity leaning into our strengths, how Nick really captures human themes in her writing, and even we talked a little bit about Harry Potter. At the end. You'll find out what her house is by the end for all you Harry Potter nerds out there like myself. But yeah, this episode is amazing. Listening back to it, I am just in awe of the genius of Nick Stone, and I don't say that word lightly. I hope you enjoy this episode. Alright, nick Stone, welcome to Speak for Change podcast Honor have you on.

Speaker 3: 2:11

Thank you for having me. I can't wait to get into it.

Nic: 2:16

So I just finished this literally today. I just it's a chaos theory. Oh my God Hit me in a lot of places. I just ask, like, when writing such like vulnerable books, like and having to do tours around like the whole United States, I imagine, people come up to you and are like want to talk to you about like their mental health problems and almost like you're a therapist of sorts and you do have a degree in psychology, so I mean there's that, but does that like, how do you manage all that? Does that actually happen and how do you manage all that?

Speaker 3: 3:04

I mean, it definitely happens. I think that, like, I manage it, but just having really solid personal boundaries, it's it's I'm able to write these stories and to delve as deeply into this stuff as I do because I have taken the time to like address my own trauma and go through multiple types of therapy and I've been on psychiatric medication and I've gotten all the diagnoses and and it's just such a normal part of my life that I don't treat any of it as strange or shameful or unusual, which makes it a little easier to interact with other people. I think a lot of the time when we're struggling to like tell people about our stuff, or we're struggling to listen to other people talk about stuff they have going on, a lot of the time that's rooted in either shame or fear, right, and neither one of those things. There's just no space for that for me, because I know what I'm writing and I know the effect that it has the potential to have. Right, I don't.

Speaker 3: 4:07

I will say I am very actively not out here trying to be anybody's therapist, though I don't. That's, that's not my ministry. Yeah, I will make you. I will make sure you know that you are not alone, and then you should consult someone who was licensed. I'm not in therapy because I'm not it.

Nic: 4:27

Yeah, absolutely I feel that. Yeah, I guess the you know a clarify that is does it take like an emotional toll on you to have to be in these spaces where you know people are asking you these or at least telling you, sharing their stories with you, like if you're or if you're in line, or something like that?

Speaker 3: 4:48

Really, I think that the emotional toll is I don't know. And I also say all this is like a, an extreme extrovert like I'm, like I love being around people, I love talking to people, I love listening to people, I love hearing people's stories. Yeah, like all of that stuff is fuel for me. Obviously, if I've been like going, going, going for weeks, like like now, it's a little more taxing because I'm just I like like we're a little tired, yeah, I think like all of it is for me, everything that I do is about holding space and, of course, I run out right like anybody, like anybody runs out of space and I just have to go to sleep. You know, like like knowing one's own limits is really important when engaging with this sort of work, and I just like mine are pretty high when it comes to holding space for people to be human, because I hold I hold a pretty significant amount of space for myself to be human, so it makes it a little easier for me to to hold that space for other people.

Nic: 6:05

Man, that's beautiful and you know, reading this book man, yeah, I mean I, I it's weird how, as an adult, I resonate with, like young adult fiction. Right, I don't know if that's weird or if that's something that is normal like, but I was like man, these, these, these are very human scenarios. You know, these are very human, like conversations, experiences and relational experiences. And like how do you, how do you, really dive deep into that like human experience? I know you've you've talked about how you've like gone and you've eavesdropped right on like folks and coffee shops and all this stuff. But is there anything else that you do to really hone in? I mean, you're speaking from like an 18 year old boys perspective. Yeah, in this, book you know.

Speaker 3: 7:01

I mean people are people. Are people right, like I think okay. So the first thing that you said I hear from a lot of adults, right, like there are a lot of adults. First of all, ya is nothing more than a marketing tool, right? Let's think about when I think about the kind of work that I write. The truth of the matter is anybody could enjoy it.

Speaker 3: 7:21

The only thing that makes it quote unquote, ya is basically the age of the character and the shortness of the time span of the full story, right, so, like this is a story that takes place over the course of like a year. I've yet to write a story that takes longer than a year to take place. I've written a story that takes place in a week, right, and I think that shorter timeframe we tend to call, we tend to like frame that as being better for younger readers. But like you were a young adult at some point, like you were a 17 year old boy, so I don't see it as strange that you're able to identify with one, right, and I think, especially for people like us who are black, like we didn't have we didn't really have books that featured black teenagers when we were teenagers.

Nic: 8:11

No, not at all.

Speaker 3: 8:11

It's a very new phenomenon, Like 2014 is great and, like, 2014 is when you know, there was this reckoning, I guess, in children's literature and publishers started acquiring and publishing more books about black and brown kids, right, Especially black and brown teenagers. So, like, this is stuff that we missed. We, like, missed out on it, which is part of the reason I write it, right Like, I write it because I needed it, and when it comes to being able to write characters whose lives are different from mine, I lean into the similarities. I think you know, for the most part, most human beings have the same general range of emotion. Right, like, there are different wheels that name the emotions and different like you can figure out. You can figure out what to call your emotions by looking at these different.

Speaker 3: 9:07

There's all kinds of resources if you wanna know how to name your emotions, but, at the end of the day, most of us are experiencing them and most of them are being triggered by similar things in our lives. Right, like, sadness is an emotion that is stimulated by loss, yeah, period. Right, anger is stimulated by violated boundaries. Anxiety is stimulated by fear of the future. Like, there are all of these big emotions that have very common catalyzers and I think, if we're able to lean into both the emotion itself and recognize it. Yes, other people feel those emotions and lean into the fact that, like the catalyzers for what someone else is feeling could also catalyze similar feelings in us.

Speaker 3: 9:54

Like that's how I write books. I'm also real big on doing interviews, like when I'm writing a book about a 17 year old boy. I talk to 17 year old boys because I wanna make sure that what's happening in the book is authentic I guess would be the word Because you're right like I'm not a 17 year old boy. But I think, at the end of the day, anybody can connect with anybody. There just has to be a willingness.

Nic: 10:21

Absolutely. I love the interviewing Other 17 year old boys and, like your, emotional intelligence is high. It seems clearly from the writing and from how you're speaking about this process. What are some things that you do to strengthen that emotional intelligence?

Speaker 3: 10:43

Shout out to my therapist. There are two.

Speaker 3: 10:48

Hell yeah, I have my regular talk therapist. I have a trauma specific therapist, I have a psychiatrist. And then reading. I think people underestimate just how much reading positively impacts the way that you move through the world. And I'm not just talking like reading fiction, but like reading anything can positively impact the way that you move through the world. I get a daily digest that's like a seven point daily digest from the Washington Post that I read literally every day. I get a daily digest from the Atlantic and I will pick out which long form essays I'm gonna read for the day. Doing as much reading as possible is something that has helped me tremendously because reading is, like this, gateway to more humanity and expansive humanity, and humanity that looks different from the humanity that I live, humanity that's taking place in a different part of the world. Books give us so books, articles, et cetera, essays they give us so much to grow from that. Honestly, I don't think there's any excuse for not being emotionally intelligent.

Speaker 3: 12:01

The information's there you know what I mean Absolutely, absolutely Even if you can't afford therapy, bro, like, get a library card membership and read it on your phone, like you can do that. That's the thing you can do. Check out some books from the library. You don't need to have money to do that.

Nic: 12:17

Oh my God, you're absolutely right. And just to relate to that, I read this poem. I was reading this poetry book and, oh my God, I swear I have two pages in. It was just telling a story through a narrative poem, but the story was in the perspective of a woman and it really hit me hard. You know, I had put down the book and had to be like what am I feeling right now? And it was just like this deep empathy, right For people and what they're going through. And it was one of my first experiences where I really saw the value in poetry.

Thomas: 13:02

You know what I mean, Like you know what I mean.

Nic: 13:06

I mean, I've been writing poetry my whole life just as a way of processing, but I've never really read poetry Like and I've never really understood like the pool of it, right. And so I know this is like we're not talking about specifically poetry or whatever, but I just feel like the writing, you're right, Like reading is like an excellent way of building emotional intelligence, Cause from that day on, man, I can't look at people the same. I can't look at people the same.

Speaker 3: 13:37

Right, and I actually like that you're talking about poetry, because I feel like poetry is. Poetry is a discipline that unfortunately, in many ways, we've been conditioned to see a splitment, which is stupid. First of all, poetry is writing good. Poetry is incredibly difficult. That's the first thing. Right, it is a very specific art form and this idea that like, oh, I can do, I can write a poem, okay, but can you write a good one? Like it's not right, like these are not the same right, and just there's so much room for so many emotions in a very small space, it comes to poetry. So, like, I highly recommend reading poetry. My favorite poet is Gwendolyn Brooks.

Speaker 3: 14:24

And like I mean. The things this woman did with very few words will never cease to amaze me never.

Nic: 14:36

It's such a powerful impact. Just, I mean like, just like what you just said few words, right. Like as someone who tends to explain a lot, like I tend to like over-explore things, I have like ADHD and like you know, so I just kind of like go off on these tangents, but you know, I've just have so much value for people who can really make an impact with such few words. And I think you know, actually, when reading this book this is not a like a blatant shout out to your book, but I mean like truly, when I was reading this book Chaos Theory, like your introduction and your author's note, like in near the end I was like the beginning was.

Nic: 15:23

I was like she said that perfectly and like a page and a half or whatever two pages, and I was like man, like that was so, like cause you didn't have to say that. You know what I mean, you didn't have to explain where you were coming from, from the mental health that's like an extra level of vulnerability on your hand, but like you explained it in this like beautiful way and such few words. So I almost had the same feeling of like when I have initially read that poem. So I appreciate that, you know, I just want to should give you that. That was amazing.

Speaker 3: 15:58

I will take those flowers. Sounds like shit, I mean, look right. So like I'm a part of this, like leadership organization, and we focus a lot on strengths, like learning your strengths and leaning into them, and like the the definition of a strength I'm gonna butcher, but the just that like a strength is a talent that you've practiced at and gotten good at right so it's like it's a, it's this thing that's given to you.

Speaker 3: 16:22

that it's not self-generated at all, yeah, but you, you have it, it's a, it's something you're talented at, and then so you work it, you know how to work it and then you figure out how to use it and, like my top two strengths and my strengths finder are positivity and communication. So, like I'm just operating in my ministry, right, and I think that there's something, no, but there's something about figuring out what your strengths are and then leaning into them. I think that we definitely live man.

Speaker 3: 16:51

this America is a trick dog like you already know such an understanding but like there's this insistence in this country on certainty and on consistency, yeah, and neither of those things exist, like they're not real like a nature or anything.

Speaker 3: 17:11

No such thing as certainty. Like we invented this concept that does not exist. There is no way to be certain about literally anything, even the idea that two plus two equals four. We invented math. Yeah, like, invented. Like.

Speaker 3: 17:28

So everything that we do, everything we talk about, every single word we use is made up, everything. So we're basically we have this like insular existence that we've created to make life comfortable, the way that we've defined comfort, and like that's cool. But with that, I find, comes this idea that you need to be good at everything, right, yeah, like that certainty piece and that you got to be certain and you got to be consistent. But you can't really be either. Changes inevitable, like. Everything's always changing and we're not supposed to be good at everything, right, we're not supposed to be able.

Speaker 3: 18:06

The jack of all trades is a really flawed concept because, at the end of the day, not everybody is supposed to be a good writer, not everybody is supposed to be a podcaster, not everybody is supposed to be a good artist. Finding the thing that you're good at and leaning into it is the best way that you can like offer yourself to the world in in a in a way that has the power to like make other people's lives better, right? So, like what you're doing with your podcasting, I think is amazing. What you do with communication, what you do with like helping people, bringing things to people's attention, like that's a gift and you can strengthen it into a strength. So just you, these, these are the flowers for you. You keep in your areas of strength.

Nic: 18:54

Oh man, yeah, I'm not going to take a compliment, but thank you.

Speaker 3: 18:58

It better at it, thomas.

Nic: 19:03

Oh man, no, I love that. I think you know when I'm here. You talk about consistency and it almost like this, like I don't know purposeful I don't say purposeful, but like consistent with boundaries. It reminds me of kind of like colonialism in the fact that when people like would colonize a place, right, they would segment everything and like with these arbitrary lines and then with like.

Nic: 19:29

you know, this is where religion is, this is where you know you eat, this is where you do this. You know there was no fluidity, while if you look at nature, like you know, I live in the redwoods, so you know you see these like connections everywhere, right, you see life and death interacting.

Nic: 19:47

You see consistent, like inconsistencies, you know, but also a bigger pattern, you know, with like the seasons, like different birds come at my grade and all the whole thing right and so there is like a bigger pattern, but it's it's more messy than our society wants to accept and that's why, like you know, national disasters and all this stuff like freak us out, right, you know right. And like yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 3: 20:14

No, but you're right that aversion to change, right. So that's the kind of consistency I'm saying doesn't exist. Like, obviously, if you're a person who's like I'm going to stick to my workout regimen and be consistent, cool, that exists and do that, yeah. But just in the idea of permanence, there's this like false idea we have of permanence and this idea that like, if you decide something, you can't change your mind. The number of high schoolers I have had conversations with recently who are panicked about making the quote wrong decision when it comes to college, yeah right, there is no wrong decision.

Speaker 3: 20:50

If you go somewhere and you hate it, just transfer yeah that's what I did, right, like, yeah, we have to really, and it's important for me to highlight these things because they're necessary in a world where you have people who are neuro divergent, like I am right, like I'm a person who I have an. I have a couple of psychiatric diagnosis of the total, and so, like the way my brain works isn't always consistent, it isn't all, it doesn't lend itself to any sort of certainty right life for me is like a moment by moment journey, and it is beautiful and it is wonderful and I'm thriving and I'm so appreciative of that.

Speaker 3: 21:34

And I'm also appreciative of the fact that, like I don't need to know what's coming next, I don't need to like be in any sort of control, because the truth of the matter is, I'm not in control in any way. I can control only my mindset. There are actions that I can take out of that mindset, but I could wake up tomorrow unable to write, and the only thing I would be able to control in that case is how I, how I'm going to receive that, how I'm going to think about it, how I'm going to feel about it, right, yeah, which is why I say the only thing we have control over is our mindset, and so writing books like chaos theory. For me, it's like a love letter to myself. It's a love letter to my own humanity. It's important for me to make sure that I'm validating my own humanity when I'm writing books and invalidating my own humanity because we are all connected. Yeah, I'm so validating other peoples by default. That, to me, is the beauty of storytelling and it's why I'll continue to do it.

Nic: 22:35

Oh man, you're amazing. Thanks for talking.

Speaker 3: 22:40

Thank you, I don't have a problem taking compliments.

Nic: 22:44

I mean it the way you know this. This reminds me of like, kind of like your life story. I mean, you kind of went from like going to. You went to Georgia Tech, right Originally, then you dropped out because you're like surrounded by a sea of whiteness.

Speaker 3: 23:03

Yeah, I was.

Nic: 23:07

I was. I think I read that somewhere and I was like, oh, that sounds very familiar. And then you, you, you got into I forgot what the domination of Christianity, I am assuming, and you went to Israel, right, and that you know that I mean like that's such a journey right, like going from dropping out of college, like leaving everything and going with $40 in your pocket right To to Israel.

Speaker 3: 23:38

That's it. I don't recommend it.

Nic: 23:40

I mean but like, but that shows. I mean like speaking from someone who's who's also neurodivergent and kind of like. You know, I was an organic farmer and then I own that, now I own a music school and then I did this, and then you know what I mean. Like going from all these different things, it kind of like highlights the humanity. So it's kind of funny how you were like a jack of all trades is kind of, and but you're kind of like, oh, you're like there a little bit.

Nic: 24:08

You're pretty talented at a lot of different things. Clearly you've had a lot of like diverse living experiences.

Speaker 3: 24:15

Yes, However, the thing that I'm talented at is communication.

Thomas: 24:20

Yeah, which I can anywhere. Yeah, right yeah.

Speaker 3: 24:23

Don't ask me to be domestic Over like my. No, that's just not my thing.

Thomas: 24:31

Right.

Speaker 3: 24:31

Like there are so many things I'm able to move in different, move in between and within different spaces, because I know how to communicate, like. I think that, like this is an area and this is something that I didn't it is not self generated, it's a gift, right and I think that, like, being able to interact with different people, understand different people, understand where they're coming from, and connect on an emotional level, is it's a strength, and so, because I'm able to do that, I can do it in many places and I'm thankful for that.

Speaker 3: 25:03

However, you know, I did drop out of college. Like, where did Georgia Tech? Yo, I had to go, I had to go, I did so.

Speaker 3: 25:13

I transferred to Stelman, yeah, and then I was a weekend of my senior year at Stelman, when I was like I have no idea what I want to do and so, you're right, I dropped out again. After dropping out of Georgia Tech, after a semester, right, and like I look back on all of it and I was, I'm like girl, you're so impulsive, but also this is how I got to where I am. Exactly this I don't recommend getting on a to a foreign country with $28, I think something like that $40. It's in that rate. It was $40 a less. Yeah, I just. I just went off an article.

Speaker 3: 25:50

I don't suggest going to another country with literally no money in your pocket. Yeah, just wasn't a smart idea, right, it worked out because it always does. However and I say and when I say it always does, I mean it literally always does again, this has to do with mindset. So, even if I went over there and fell on my face and everything went to hell and I had to come back, it still worked out. Exactly what needed to happen Did, because what happened happened, right, right. So, like I also I'm thankful for my storyteller brain and my story story Synthesizer brain, like I love story so much. I love story to the point where I do really stupid things just because I know I'm going to have a good story to tell.

Nic: 26:40

Oh, I love this kind of problematic.

Speaker 3: 26:42

Like I've been working on this because, like I really have cause. I'm like, girl, that was so dumb, like why would you do that? And I'm like, but it's going to make a great story, yes, bitch, but that is not a good reason. Like we're working on some stuff still, yeah, and that's okay, we're human, I'm human. No, I've seen wildly human.

Nic: 27:04

No, I love that. I think that's beautiful, I think I do that. I think I do that, yeah, like, cause I don't know, when you start writing, it's like this, uh, I don't know, for me anyway, it's a, it's like a drug a little bit, you know, and you just kind of like it. Definitely storytelling, you, you're you're mainly a fiction writer, right, like, so all your stuff is fiction, except for the, the team up with Ibram X Hendy, right, or Dr Kendi, uh, but like in general, your, your focus is fiction and so, like, I mean, you must get your stories from somewhere, you know, and, um, I'm just, I'm just, you know, just from what you said, you probably get it from your life, you know and get it from everywhere.

Nic: 27:45

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 27:46

I think I got. I had the opportunity this afternoon I went to talk to um like 120 or so fourth and fifth graders at this adorable elementary school here in Dore, here in Denver. Yeah, and like one of the kids was asking me, like where do you get your inspiration? I said everywhere.

Nic: 28:03

Like story is literally everywhere.

Speaker 3: 28:05

Every movie I see, every book I read, every song I listen to. There's narrative in it.

Nic: 28:10

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 28:11

And I think that as a liver of life, liver as in a person who lives, not liver as in the organ that, like, filters out.

Nic: 28:17

I totally got it.

Speaker 3: 28:19

Yeah, I thought I would clarify. As a person who lives life, we all are constantly immersed in inspiration.

Speaker 3: 28:29

I think it's just a matter of like opening your eyes to it and being open to it and like trying to move through the world with your hands open. I know so many people who are. You know we're so afraid of bad things happening, but like that, things are always happening, whether or not they happen to us, you know it's who knows. However, they're always happening to someone and I think that we have to just be more open to things as they come and not try to be so controlling over everything. I read a lot of very like woo woo philosophical stuff.

Thomas: 29:09

Oh, tell me more.

Speaker 3: 29:11

I mean, it's a lot of stuff about like murdering your ego, yeah, yeah.

Nic: 29:17

What specifically do you read?

Speaker 3: 29:19

So Eckhart Tolle, oh yeah, I love the books.

Nic: 29:23

What's that other one he wrote? New Earth, new Earth, that's. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.

Speaker 3: 29:27

New Earth. And then Michael Singer.

Speaker 3: 29:32

I read his books, the Untethered Soul Living Untethered books like that, where you are learning how to just let go of stuff and stop being controlled by what you do and don't like and just kind of open your mind to, and your open yourself to, whatever might come and like. It's only difficult in the sense that the relinquishing of control can be difficult. But the thing is we don't actually have control and recognizing that like oh wait me, worrying about whether or not I'm going to make my rent is not going to make me make my rent yeah, like that switch in the brain where we almost feel like we think it's our duty sometimes to worry about stuff that we can't do anything about, as though worrying about it is somehow. Worrying about it is somehow going to like make it go a certain way. And it doesn't.

Speaker 3: 30:34

You know, for me I will speak solely for myself here I prefer to expend my energy and daydreaming. Yeah, I would rather like sit on a porch and listening to the birds chirping and watching squirrels like fight on the fence and sit around worrying about what's going to happen next. Like I just it's energy I would prefer to direct toward things that feel good, things that make me happy. As opposed to freddy freddish, I'm a writer. I make up words all the time.

Nic: 31:10

No, that's beautiful and I think that is like incredibly wise and I mean it's funny. You brought up those like books and that kind of mentality has like losing control. Is that been like it? Has control been an issue for you specifically, or is it something that you've kind of naturally kind of resonated with? I Mean.

Speaker 3: 31:32

I realized I wasn't in control when I was 12, right, just with stuff going on in life at home, etc, etc. And I also realized that that's one thing I will say about trauma and about, like, really terrible situations is that once you're able to process through it For me I was able to take this kind of nugget of wisdom that like, no, I was not in control in this situation, but I still came out on the other side of it and now I get to decide what I'm gonna do with myself. And it's that part that like, like recognition that no, I'm not always gonna be on top of everything I had. I had a situation literally a couple nights ago I think it was like Three or four nights, maybe two or three. There's a lesson a week ago.

Speaker 3: 32:22

I like had this situation where I found myself Really powerfully triggered, yeah, from trauma that I'd already dealt, like I've. When I tell y'all I am a therapy, a holic, like I love therapy, yeah, done regular therapy I do. I've done EMDR, yeah, which is a very specific type of trauma therapy, and like I got triggered Over some. I got triggered by some stuff that threw me back to stuff I've already dealt with an EMDR and like that was wild to me because it was like what whoa?

Speaker 3: 32:54

Yeah but our bodies carry their own memories, right? Yeah, like I think we give our minds far too much credit when it comes to Anything right. So Knowing still that I'm able to be triggered over stuff that I thought I dealt with was a really good reminder to me that, like the world isn't here to meet my expectations, like this world that I live in is not designed to keep me comfortable, like it's a it's a blessing that I get to be here and to have this experience, not the other way around, right? Like I think I Think that recognizing that for me, everything is about Having a really cool experience, while I have the opportunity to have a really cool experience, that has helped me to relinquish a little bit the control and the insistence on things being a certain way in order for me to be comfortable and I mean I was, I was missing out on so much by Trying to trying to control shit. Yeah, sorry, oh you're good.

Speaker 3: 34:10

You know, the children totally say shit all the time. I have some of my own shit is probably my six-year-old's favorite word.

Nic: 34:18

Yeah, that's just. That's just part of bringing up a child.

Speaker 3: 34:22

Now I Just like a sailor when I was six. So it's fine.

Nic: 34:30

Man. So you know we don't have much time here, but I want to kind of just touch on Representation and why that's important to you. You know, I know it's a question. You probably get a lot, but for just our listeners, you you're if you they haven't read your books you know you have a lot of variety of characters in your books. You know you have people from like like biracial, mixed race, characters with two dads, sometimes with, like, a conservative black mom. You know like so Such good Insight and characters, wealthy black families, you know, lgbtq plus characters that are just that and there's no explanation needed, which I appreciate. Yeah, so why? Why should we have representation? I know, I just want to hear your take on that.

Speaker 3: 35:30

Because it's true.

Speaker 3: 35:31

Yeah like full stop, right. Like there are people who have two dads, there are people who are gay yeah, what a wonder. Like there are black conservatives, there are people who have, who are biracial, who Parents don't get along because of their political there's different political views. Like all of these people Exist and it's important to show that they exist. So there's this.

Speaker 3: 36:00

There's this really brilliant author named Amber McBride. She writes just gorgeous young adult fiction. She's got a middle grade coming out in the fall. She had a. Her first book was like a national book award finalists. It's called me off and it's about a girl who loses her whole family in a car accident and like it's just so, so good. And she's also neuro divergent. We were on a panel together a couple weeks ago and something that she said was that Pretending things don't exist is the reason so many people feel alone. Because if you tell somebody that what they're experiencing isn't real, they're going to assume they're the only person experiencing it. So in telling the truth about what just is real and what just is out in the world and what is just true, we're showing people that they're not alone, and it's in learning that you're not alone that you're really able to step into the fullness of humanity.

Nic: 37:00

Oh my god, yep, yeah, that just hit hits of good, good feelings in my body there. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, maybe I'll talk to you later about my whole, my whole thing, but um, you know, Just kind of want to get a quick, like a really random side note here. So you're a big Harry Potter fan, yeah?

Speaker 3: 37:30

Yes, yeah, unfortunately sometimes yeah.

Nic: 37:35

So I think you know what I'm gonna ask next. No, man, I am. I am too. I'm a big Harry Potter fan, so I just want to get your view as, like you know, black by woman on the JK rolling Deal that's going on.

Speaker 3: 38:07

I think that everyone has the right to decide what they will and won't engage with. Right, and we'll just leave it at that. Okay, my personal, because the truth of the matter is my personal opinion on someone else's perspective is irrelevant.

Nic: 38:27

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 38:27

Right, like what I think about. What she thinks doesn't matter. I know my perspective.

Nic: 38:35

Right.

Speaker 3: 38:35

When it comes to trans people and trans rights and the legitimacy of a trans identity. I know what I believe about that and I will stand in what I believe about that. So what she believes ain't none of my business, frankly, and anybody who decides they want to disengage from her work because of her beliefs is at full liberty to do that. You know. For me, I think the most important thing is supporting people in the decisions they make for themselves.

Nic: 39:04

Yeah, I love that. That's a beautiful answer.

Speaker 3: 39:09

I will say I have no interest in meeting or talking to her. Yeah, I will leave that like Absolutely, catch me outside. No, anne.

Nic: 39:21

On that note though.

Speaker 3: 39:24

I'm glad you're stopping me before we get to this year.

Nic: 39:30

What house do you think you would be put in?

Speaker 3: 39:32

Oh, I'm a Slytherin. I'm a Slytherin, I have a. You can see it, but the listeners won't be able to.

Nic: 39:39

Yeah, what is it?

Speaker 3: 39:41

It's Snape's Patronus.

Nic: 39:42

Oh, that's beautiful.

Speaker 3: 39:44

For me, Snape's Patronus is the truest and most powerful symbol in the entire story because it encompasses so much. But we are not going to go into a Harry Potter dissertation right now because we are talking about other things.

Nic: 39:56

Absolutely. We have our second part, which is like do you have any quotes? Say you live by or think of often.

Speaker 3: 40:03

Yes, we are not put into the world to air our moral prejudices. That is Oscar Wilde from the Adventures of Dorian Gray. No, the picture of Dorian Gray.

Nic: 40:15

That was great.

Speaker 3: 40:16

That is absolutely not the title of the book.

Nic: 40:18

That was great, the Adventures of Dorian Gray. I'm curious about the adventures. Honestly, it could be retitled.

Speaker 3: 40:26

That quote is my to live by, absolutely.

Nic: 40:29

Oh, that's amazing. When you feel overwhelmed or unfocused, what do you do?

Speaker 3: 40:35

Sleep, hey, good night.

Nic: 40:39

Who do you think of when you hear the word successful?

Speaker 3: 40:44

Oh, I mean myself, and I don't say that like arrogantly. I know what you're saying I think of it in a sense of like having reached a place where I'm content and like like to me. That's what success is Like. Success is stepping into it. Stepping into each day is stepping into each day. I mean I could also say Oprah, but that's very on the nose.

Nic: 41:09

Yeah, absolutely no, I like. I like how you chose yourself. I think you're successful.

Speaker 3: 41:15

I do too. I was like damn.

Nic: 41:18

What advice would you give yourself 10 years ago?

Speaker 3: 41:22

Keep going.

Nic: 41:23

All right. And what was the worst advice you've ever received?

Speaker 3: 41:28

Oh, oh, girl, you should date him. No, I should not have. That is the truth. It was terrible advice and I mean, at the end of the day, I'm glad that I did, because you know there are no alternate paths, right, there's only what has happened, and I'm glad that I've gotten to where I have, and I wouldn't be here without the things that I've experienced Like girl. You couldn't come up with no better person for me today.

Nic: 42:05

And then, if you had to recommend one or two books to somebody, what would they be?

Speaker 3: 42:13

A new one I will give you is Promise Boys. Yeah, the author's name is Nick Brooks and he's a a fantastic book. That is a fantastic look into the way we think about black and brown boys, yeah, and the way black and brown boys think about themselves. And then the other one I will give, which is old, is the evidence of things not seen by James Baldwin. Beautiful James Baldwin, all right.

Nic: 42:50

Here are the two. We have two silly questions for you here. I love those I love silly. They're silly ish. What is your astrology sign and do you resonate with it?

Speaker 3: 43:02

I am a cancer son Aries. Moon Libra rising.

Nic: 43:08

Oh, I saw the Aries and I know all of that should give you a clue that I absolutely resonate.

Speaker 3: 43:14

What did you say? What?

Nic: 43:14

was your rising.

Speaker 3: 43:16

Libra.

Nic: 43:17

Libra Cool, it's good, rising. It's fitting.

Speaker 3: 43:20

All of it.

Nic: 43:21

Yeah, aries moon, that's a strong moon. Everyone I knew with Aries moon man Kick ass all the time we get after Straight up. They're the ones I play. I try to play, no matter what their son sign is. I play a game with and they get the most competitive I've ever seen. Don't be telling me, sorry.

Speaker 3: 43:41

I studied astrology I was like, oh, she's so nice yeah.

Nic: 43:49

So Libra said to you Are we playing Uno?

Speaker 3: 43:52

It's a different story.

Nic: 43:53

I was taking the hoops off.

Speaker 3: 43:56

I got to take off my earrings if we're playing Uno.

Nic: 43:59

And then the second question is if you had a power animal, what would it be A power animal, and why so? Animal that would give you like confidence, strength, that kind of thing.

Speaker 3: 44:09

Oh, a hippo.

Nic: 44:10

Oh my gosh why.

Speaker 3: 44:12

Because hippos are cute and like utterly and ridiculously vicious. And I like that combination where, like you can be fooled by the work and then like they will rip you apart.

Nic: 44:28

Yeah, Didn't you quote a Bible verse of like a woman who who used her looks to get into a tent and stab them in the head oh, I did, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I did a war In a whole war because you had to use her strings. Okay, that goes really in touch with the Libra sending Aries moon hippo.

Thomas: 44:56

And.

Speaker 3: 44:56

I tell people like you got to use what you got, man. Like make the world better. Use what you got.

Nic: 45:02

Yeah, oh, man. Well, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. It's been a great time. I feel like I could talk to you forever. Oh, that's a good sign, and this has been speak for change podcast. I'm your host, thomas Sage Patterson, and you need to get chaos, all right, have a good day.

Speaker 3: 45:23

Good.